Upgrading the Sonicaps on XLS Encore to more expensive caps

Creed · « **on:** 18 Dec 2021, 03:02 am »

Hi, I haven’t played my Sking Ninja modded XLS Encores in a good while. So I pulled them out today and hooked them up to a 65 watt Don Sachs Kootenay tube amp. I forgot how good these things sound.

I have upgraded some other speakers with better caps and it has always improved things. I was curious if anyone has added Clarity Cap CMR’s or V Cap ODAM or others. How far can this speaker go with different caps.

Right now it has sonicaps with Miflex bypass caps. If I decided to do this I may just put different caps on tweeter section to keep cost down. Thanks for any advice.

tortoiseman2542 · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 04:18 am »

Curious on this one as well. I’ve wondered what different caps all around would be like. Also considering different resistors. I have path audio (sound great but non stock anywhere) but am considering dueland high end resistors. I’d love to get some different caps too.

Robert

Tyson · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 04:27 am »

Clarity Caps are fine but the Vcap ODAM is much better. Dueland resistor is good but Path Audio is better.

Creed · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 05:29 am »

Does anyone remember is it just one cap for the tweeter and maybe a around a 10 UF. if so the V cap would be $220 for both speakers. It’s been along time since I was in there. Would it be subtle change, I would think not but I have no clue is why I was asking.

corndog71 · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 08:10 am »

What you have is a slight case of Audiophilia Nervosa. The X-LS are great and you already have decent caps in them. I have doubts that $200+ caps will make a significant difference but it’s your money and you’re welcome to try it. I’ve read a few guys swear by the ODAM caps. I’ve also experienced the older V-Caps and they are quality caps but pricey. In a preamp I built I found the Clarity CMR caps to sound just as good as V-Caps and for less money.

mkrawcz · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 12:07 pm »

I haven't upgraded the caps in the Encores other than Myflex bypass caps on them all. But in the NX-Studios and NX-Oticas, VCAP ODAMS embarrass the Sonicap/Myflex combo. It's not remotely subtle. They are very different from the more expensive VCAP Teflons. They sound much more natural with a massive 3d soundstage. To me, it's an indication of ultimate transparency in a capacitor. The closest thing to no cap at all.

corndog71 · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 01:08 pm »

The Neo3GR tweeter is for sure more open and transparent than the Encore tweeter.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 01:55 pm »

Quote from: Creed on 18 Dec 2021, 05:29 am

Does anyone remember is it just one cap for the tweeter and maybe a around a 10 UF. if so the V cap would be $220 for both speakers. It’s been along time since I was in there. Would it be subtle change, I would think not but I have no clue is why I was asking.

Depends. There are 2 versions of the X-LS crossover. (Excluding the base-level kit)
The older version has a single primary cap with 2 bypass caps.
The newer version has 2 primary caps with 2 bypass caps.

OSIB16 · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 03:18 pm »

I have previously discussed this same subject matter with Jeff at Sonic Craft who informed me that the very best film caps that his company carries are the MUNDORF SUPREME SILVER OIL.

The people at suppliers; HiFi Collective in the UK, and Parts Connexion in Canada seem to agree that they very best caps that they carry are DUELUND CAST COPPER/SILVER.

I have tried all of these on my Odyssey amps and Martin Logan CLS IIz electrostatic speakers, with great effect.

mkrawcz · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 04:06 pm »

Quote from: OSIB16 on 18 Dec 2021, 03:18 pm

I have previously discussed this same subject matter with Jeff at Sonic Craft who informed me that the very best film caps that his company carries are the MUNDORF SUPREME SILVER OIL.

The people at suppliers; HiFi Collective in the UK, and Parts Connexion in Canada seem to agree that they very best caps that they carry are DUELUND CAST COPPER/SILVER.

I have tried all of these on my Odyssey amps and Martin Logan CLS IIz electrostatic speakers, with great effect.

Those Mundorf caps are terrible IMO. The Duelunds are pretty much the best, however, at the values needed for a speakers crossover, these are simply too physically large to be used inside a cabinet so they should only be used as bypass cap values in a crossover. In comes the ODAMs they perform close to the Duelunds and as a small enough form factor for a speaker crossover. I bypass them with Duelunds.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 04:24 pm »

Please read through Tony Gee's very thorough Capacitor Test: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

It has his impressions of various brands and models of capacitors used in speaker crossovers.

For my pair of X-CS, I decided on the Jantzen Audio Superior as my main caps with Miflex as bypass caps. I also used the Jantzen Wax Coils.

These components are much larger than the stock crossover components, so the crossover has to be mounted outboard.

OSIB16 · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 05:11 pm »

Quote from: mkrawcz on 18 Dec 2021, 04:06 pm

Those Mundorf caps are terrible IMO. The Duelunds are pretty much the best, however, at the values needed for a speakers crossover, these are simply too physically large to be used inside a cabinet so they should only be used as bypass cap values in a crossover. In comes the ODAMs they perform close to the Duelunds and as a small enough form factor for a speaker crossover. I bypass them with Duelunds.

I suppose that you could use an off board crossover in a separate box. This could overcome the problem of giant capacitors that can’t fit in a speaker cabinet.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 07:22 pm »

Quote from: OSIB16 on 18 Dec 2021, 05:11 pm

I suppose that you could use an off board crossover in a separate box. This could overcome the problem of giant capacitors that can’t fit in a speaker cabinet.

That's what I had to do with my NX studios.

And we'll be using my studios for a couple of ideals involving reworking the NX crossovers, and trying out a new bypass cap that could be an alternative to the Miflex caps.

Definitely interested to see how things pan out.

mkrawcz · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 07:44 pm »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 18 Dec 2021, 07:22 pm

That's what I had to do with my NX studios.

And we'll be using my studios for a couple of ideals involving reworking the NX crossovers, and trying out a new bypass cap that could be an alternative to the Miflex caps.

Definitely interested to see how things pan out.

You definitely have an ideal modular setup for experimenting.

OSIB16 · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Dec 2021, 09:35 pm »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 18 Dec 2021, 07:22 pm

That's what I had to do with my NX studios.

And we'll be using my studios for a couple of ideals involving reworking the NX crossovers, and trying out a new bypass cap that could be an alternative to the Miflex caps.

Definitely interested to see how things pan out.

From what I have heard about the Milflex with it’s paper instead of plastic philosophy, I think that you may struggle to beat it, when it comes to transparency.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Dec 2021, 01:12 am »

Quote from: OSIB16 on 18 Dec 2021, 09:35 pm

From what I have heard about the Milflex with it’s paper instead of plastic philosophy, I think that you may struggle to beat it, when it comes to transparency.

For sure, my Studio crossovers use a massive Miflex copper cap in the tweeter circuit, and a Miflex bypass caps in both circuits. They have a really lush, laid-back sound that feels very fluid and organic without ever sounding "dark" or lacking for texture/clarity. Danny's stock crossover sounds really good too, but has a more crisp, solid feel to it, but you still get some hints of that lushness, but not to the same extent, as mine.

But I'm still excited to see how these new caps perform either way.

tortoiseman2542 · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Dec 2021, 01:44 am »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 19 Dec 2021, 01:12 am

For sure, my Studio crossovers use a massive Miflex copper cap in the tweeter circuit, and a Miflex bypass caps in both circuits. They have a really lush, laid-back sound that feels very fluid and organic without ever sounding "dark" or lacking for texture/clarity. Danny's stock crossover sounds really good too, but has a more crisp, solid feel to it, but you still get some hints of that lushness, but not to the same extent, as mine.

But I'm still excited to see how these new caps perform either way.

Are you allowed to say what bypass caps they are Hobbs?

Robert

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Dec 2021, 02:08 am »

Quote from: tortoiseman2542 on 19 Dec 2021, 01:44 am

Are you allowed to say what bypass caps they are Hobbs?

Robert

0.1uF Gen 3 Sonicaps.
We have a been using tiny 0.01uF Gen 3 Sonicaps in place of the 0.1 Gen 2 caps for months now, but they're too small to really do any A/B comparisons.

The owner of Sonicraft really likes them so far, and has gotten really positive feedback about them lately, esp compared to the Miflex, and so he sent us a pair of 0.1 caps to try out. We're going to get some copper clips and burn them in at the same time and A/B them to one another.

tortoiseman2542 · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Dec 2021, 02:38 am »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 19 Dec 2021, 02:08 am

0.1uF Gen 3 Sonicaps.
We have a been using tiny 0.01uF Gen 3 Sonicaps in place of the 0.1 Gen 2 caps for months now, but they're too small to really do any A/B comparisons.

The owner of Sonicraft really likes them so far, and has gotten really positive feedback about them lately, esp compared to the Miflex, and so he sent us a pair of 0.1 caps to try out. We're going to get some copper clips and burn them in at the same time and A/B them to one another.

Nice! Those, I assume, are different than Sonicap platinum?

Robert

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Dec 2021, 02:54 am »

Quote from: tortoiseman2542 on 19 Dec 2021, 02:38 am

Nice! Those, I assume, are different than Sonicap platinum?

Robert

They're intended to be a somewhere between the two, but much cheaper than the platinums or Miflex.