[glennharrison714]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to AudioCircle but a long time fan of all things audio.  I have that upgrade bug again and am interested in learning more about Spatial Audios speakers as everything that I've read said they are a great match with my LTA z10 amp.  What has me concerned is that I can only pull them about 3 ft from the front wall, maybe an inch or two more as space is limited by a pool table and some people say they are a little finicky when it comes to placement.  My room is 14x20, btw.  Also, I do both critical listening and listen while I play pool.  Any thoughts on if the X5s won't sound as good as the M3s given the more directional tweeter while I'm playing pool?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
-Glenn   

[radarnyc]

We have very similar rooms. My room is 14.5' x 22'. I have my speakers on the short wall. I tried maybe 10 locations for the speakers. I both listened and measured with REW at each of these locations. I had them pulled out as far as 5' from the front wall and as much of 4' from the side walls. I ended up at 30" off the front wall and only 15" from the side walls (to the edge of the speakers). They sound great here...and measure very well. They also look great. Spatials are very forgiving speakers; they don't actually need to be 4' or 5' off the front wall; the X's tweeter doesn't seem to be bothered by being close to the side walls.

X5 and LTA10

[franSSS]

Welcome Glenn!

Did you ask Clayton directly? Send him a plan of your room including height etc and he will be more than likely the best person to make a recommendation.

[dB Cooper]

Any thoughts on if the X5s won't sound as good as the M3s given the more directional tweeter while I'm playing pool?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
-Glenn

Would that matter? Do you listen with the same attentiveness while you're doing something else. Sounds like not, which is probably true for most of us. I'd buy the one that fits your preferences, budget, and associated equipment. In other words, I'd buy the one that you think is best for your serious listening and let the chips fall where they may during your pool games. Listening to both if you can would be wise IMHO. Not only do people have different opinions, they arrive at them for different reasons. The only other opinion besides yours I'd rely on would be the guy who designed them. Guys like Clayton, Jim Salk, and others make experience-and-expertise based recommendations that are based not on generating an order but on creating a satisfied customer. Take everybody else (including me) with a grain of salt.

[Tyson]

X series actually sounds great off-axis as long as you are not directly to the side of the speaker or behind the speaker.  As long as you are in a space where you can see the drivers, they sound great. 

[abomwell]

Agreed.  The power response is excellent on the X5's. I listen a lot from the adjacent room and the sound is great there!

[geerock]

I can't get the thought out of my head about a guest of yours jumping a pool ball and having it bounce right through one of your drivers.  I remember a hundred years ago at a club when they had a band set up pretty close to a couple pool tables and a some yokel drove a ball right through the bass drum head.

[glennharrison714]

Hi everyone - Thank you so much for the thoughts and feedback.  And my heart would break a little if anyone jumped a ball into my woofer...Thankfully all that play are well informed of the house "no jumping balls rule"  It's not like any of us are Minnesota Fats.  We are lucky if we are hitting above 60% for bank shots, but that's probably for a different forum. 

[StefanS]

Hi, i have a pair of X3, the active subwoofer is such a blast, i would never go back. Not to mention the fact that the tweeter directivity helps avoiding a confused and fatiguing sound. The X series has not just another sound, it has qualities the M3 can't give you, like a very intelligible music at low volume (due to its higher sensitivity). Briefly said, it is not just a matter of taste, the X series do many things better...

[Mr. Big]

X? or M3's Sapphire all depends on your room, the right speaker? in the wrong room equals poor sound.

[franSSS]

X? or M3's Sapphire all depends on your room, the right speaker? in the wrong room equals poor sound.

well said...I think most of us focus too little on getting the room optimum. Something i will do the minute my gear arrives. Plus i am aiming to use a specialist in room acoustics. No need for me to re in vent the wheel. In the long run i think we waste more money with less positive results by doing it our self. If you do have the expertise then DIY is more thank likely a great outcome.

[Mr. Big]

Your room has to be able to work with the speaker you purchase, it is that simple a huge speaker in a smaller room is a waste of money, sure it will sound OK but you will never hear what that speaker was capable of, and then the other side a bookshelf speaker in a larger room. All will play music and for some that are good enough, but do some work and research, look at your room then go with the speakers that will not overpower it. I wanted the X series, Clayton suggested the Sapphires due to my room and the distance I would sit from the speakers. Listen to Christmas Choir now and from the other room it sounds like they are playing in my house, that is hard to achieve, and to find a speaker that can do that is rare also. My M3's can do it with ease with conveying the emotion of the music and singers, and I am a vocal freak and If I hear a speaker that cannot get that right and a piano then it is not a very good speaker and I heard the "name" ones that could not, though the usual suspects magazine rave about them. Spatial smokes them at 1/4 of their prices even the upper price of the line. 

[Tyson]

Agreed with Mr. Big.  Per Clayton, the X series is better suited in medium-to-large rooms and the Sapphire series is better suited in medium-to-small rooms.  No reason to doubt the word of the designer. 

[DBT AUDIO]

We have very similar rooms. My room is 14.5' x 22'. I have my speakers on the short wall. I tried maybe 10 locations for the speakers. I both listened and measured with REW at each of these locations. I had them pulled out as far as 5' from the front wall and as much of 4' from the side walls. I ended up at 30" off the front wall and only 15" from the side walls (to the edge of the speakers). They sound great here...and measure very well. They also look great. Spatials are very forgiving speakers; they don't actually need to be 4' or 5' off the front wall; the X's tweeter doesn't seem to be bothered by being close to the side walls.

X5 and LTA10

I have the X5s paired with a PrimaLuna EVO 400 preamp and power amp.  I did a home audition with the LTA MicrozotL preamp and the Ultalinear 20 watt power amp.  I liked the LTA gear better than the PrimaLuna gear in the micro detail department.  It seemed to reveal pin point accuracy of the musician's location which was more distinct than the PrimaLuna.  The PrimaLuna is definitely detailed, but not a defined as the LTA IMO.  The PrimaLuna seemed to have more heft in the mids which made the bass sound stronger.  I thought the LTA handled vocals slightly better as well.  I didn't pull the trigger on the LTA gear yet because the PrimaLuna still performed beautifully and the soundstage seemed like it may have been bigger than LTA.  I just want to see if there is any other lines out there that may outperform my PrimaLuna. 

Have you heard the LTA line or any other preamp and power amp combos with your X5s?  If so, what are your thoughts on the other gear vs. LTA?

Thanks 

[abomwell]

I tried three amps with my X5's; a Carver Crimson 275, a LTA ZOTL10, and a First Watt J2. The preamp used is a DSPeaker Anti-mode X4 which has a built-in excellent DAC. A friend and I compared the Carver with the LTA. (My friend was the principal trombonist in the LA Philharmonic for over 30 years). We both preferred the Carver. A couple weeks later the First Watt J2 arrived. Another X5 owner and I compared the First Watt with the Carver and we both preferred the Carver which seemed to have more meat on the bone than the First Watt. For orchestral music, which is what I mostly listen to, that extra meat on the bone works very well in my opinion but your milage may vary.

[geerock]

I've also tried several amps with my X5's, including the Prima Luna 400.  I've used the LTA zotl 10, the LTA Reference 40, the Reference 40 plus, an Anthem mrx710, and the Carver 275.  The Prima Luna 400 to me was a middle of the road piece.  The Anthem made me realize I needed to go back to tubes.
 Nothing to write home about on either the Prima or the Anthem.  Then I bought the LTA 10.  Very nice unit with a nice reduction in noise and a much more musical quality.  Right after that a gently used LTA 40 Reference came on the market at a nice price and I grabbed it.  With those luscious NOS EL34 tubes and other improvements over the 10 it was the new keeper.  Right around then I stopped using the preamp section of the Anthem and received Don Sachs all in preamp.  Never underestimate the importance of a good preamp.  The DS Pre with those 6sn7 tubes made 3very amp sound better by a lot.  I decided to try a friend's Carver 275 and that was also a very nice amp when I changed the signal tubes to NOS Telefuncken from the 50"s, but the LTA 40 still had that magic.  Earlier this year I sent the LTA 40 back to get the PLUS upgrade and it was money well spent.  An immediate and obvious positive change when I got it back and that's it.  I'm done.  I do use the Carver in a second system with a pair of modified Klipsh Cornwall IV's and that is an excellent combo also, but the DS pre with the LTA40 PLUS and tubed DAC is the finest system I've owned and one of the finest I've ever heard.  I may finally be able to get off the upgrade Merry Go Round.  (Famous last words).

[doggie]

Earlier this year I sent the LTA 40 back to get the PLUS upgrade and it was money well spent.  An immediate and obvious positive change when I got it back and that's it.  I'm done.  I do use the Carver in a second system with a pair of modified Klipsh Cornwall IV's and that is an excellent combo also, but the DS pre with the LTA40 PLUS and tubed DAC is the finest system I've owned and one of the finest I've ever heard.  I may finally be able to get off the upgrade Merry Go Round.  (Famous last words).

I use a Lampizator Baltic 3 DAC with an LTA Ultralinear Integrated which is soon to be update to the Plus version. The tubed DAC with the LTA amp is an end game system for me... of course with the X5's!

[jjss49]

I decided to try a friend's Carver 275 and that was also a very nice amp when I changed the signal tubes to NOS Telefuncken from the 50"s, but the LTA 40 still had that magic.  Earlier this year I sent the LTA 40 back to get the PLUS upgrade and it was money well spent.  An immediate and obvious positive change when I got it back and that's it.  I'm done.

geerock

curious... would like to hear you say more about how the PLUS upgrade affected the sonic qualities of the Ref40 ZOTL... i am considering sending mine back for the work to be done too, but debating the benefit

apologies in advance for the minor threadjack 

[geerock]

geerock

curious... would like to hear you say more about how the PLUS upgrade affected the sonic qualities of the Ref40 ZOTL... i am considering sending mine back for the work to be done too, but debating the benefit

apologies in advance for the minor threadjack 

You know, a lot of the time when improvements are made to a system or amp it has to do with having less noise.  And so many times we reach a level, especially when you've gone through a ton of equipment over the years that there are micro changes that you hope to make.  In this case I thought I was at the end of my journey because that amp is already dead quiet as is the rest of my system, so there was not going to be any improvement in that way.  So I was skeptical too, but I talked Mark at LTA and he assured me that it was a great improvement well worth the money and said if I wasnt satisfied we would "work something out."  When I got it back I was actually going away for the weekend so I plugged her in and put a music loop on to let the new capacitance bank get warm and run some signal through them.  When I got home 3 days later there was no doubt i had made a good choice.  I didnt analyze anything that night i just reveled in the air and natural sound of the performers.  Sound stage was a bit different than before but better.  Separation of instruments was more defined. Acoustics for piano and guitars was just in the room stunning. And complex musical passages were more defined and easier to follow.  The "queen" came downstairs and immediately said that sounds even better than before.  Did you buy more equipment?  So she noticed it immediately also.  In spite of being a bit tired from the trip we both stayed up for hours just going through our playlists of favorite tunes and we both said the same thing.....I dont know what it is but everything sounds great.  The next day I got into a little more analytical listening which I hate to do but I got curious about why the music was more engaging and emotional by interpreting physical reasons.  As far as I'm concerned, and in my opinion, too many folks are so busy using measuring instruments and apps to put their systems together that they forget to just enjoy it and feel the emotion the artist and producer are trying to get you to hear.  And for that the two best measuring instruments are located on either side of our heads.  On a quite a few tunes, one being a Diana Krall tune, when the song was over I felt like I could reach over to the left center part of the sound stage and shake her hand to tell her how much I enjoyed meeting her.  I believe if David Berning put out this same amp it would be 20k or more.  It's that good.  I never tell other people how to spend their money but with some of the outrageous costs for tweaks that we think might have made a slight difference this was a great investment for me.  I had already changed the small signal tubes to some NOS and it made a nice change.  This upgrade did all of that and much much more. 
All the best to you.

[glennharrison714]

Hi everyone.  Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback.  After reading all of your comments, speaking with Ron from New Record Day and exchanging emails with Spatial’s customer service I decided to pull the trigger on a pair of gently used M3 Sapphires that were only 50 miles from my house!  I can’t believe how great my system sounds!  I’ll be playing around with placement for a while but couldn’t be happier.  Thanks for being such a great resource.  No doubt I’ll be looking to upgrade my DAC by the summer….and the hamster wheel continues. 

Happy holidays!
Glenn