[Creed]

Can someone suggest a amp that would have synergy with the Don Sachs preamp. If anyone has tried this or owned the Don Sachs please let me know what you tried and the results you experienced. It will be used with Joseph audio speakers. 8 ohm, 88db. I haven’t made decision if I’m going tube amp or solid state. I would like to know if solid state would give a nice relaxed presence and keeping head room by using solid state. Also suggestions for a tube amp 40 to 100 watt would also be very much appreciated. I’m leaning toward tube but solid state would be easier and i live on gulf coast and it gets very hot here and not very tube friendly during the summer. Thank you for any help

[JackD]

I use the Van Alstine Vision SET 400 but have also tried my BHK 250 and the Kinki EX-M7.  I found the fixed gain of the Sachs at 18db to be bit much with them when used with my 93db Verity Otello's.  The input sensitivity on both of those amps is less than 1.5 volts while the SET 400 is a bit over 2 volts. These comparisons were done at our house in the Florida Panhandle where it is also hot as hell for a large part of the year.  Quit using tube amps for more than a brief period during the "Winter" months years ago.  If you don't think you will have a gain mismatch issue the hybrid BHK 250 is a very good compromise amp.  The Sachs/Van Alstine combo is now in our SC house paired with the Rosso Fiorentino Voltera 2.  Both of the tube amps I still have around have input sensitivities under 1 volt so I never even tried matching them with the Sachs and the Verity's.  If you have one of the earlier Sachs preamps with adjustable gain then any of the three I tried will work fine. I have a Supratek Chardonnay which is also 6SN7 based and has adjustable gain in Florida and it works with all three and the tube amps. 

[Tyson]

How does the Sachs & Chardonnay compare with each other?

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I don't have a DS preamp but plan on eventually getting one to pair with my Pass X250 amp.  I use a BAT tube preamp with my Pass amp and love the combo but I am ready to try something different.  I have a friend using an Atma-Sphere MP3 tube preamp upgraded almost to an MP-1 with his Pass Labs XA-100.5 mono's and it sounds fabulous.  Pass has a more laid back sound.  The 0.8 series amps are more tube like in sound compared to the 0.5 series.

[JackD]

Tyson

Even if using the exact same input pair the Chardonnay is still a bit "warmer" sounding while the Sachs has more "drive"  The Supratek is more old school as it still uses Alps volume control so volume and mute are it for the remote as compared to the features on the Sachs remote as the result of using the Kozmo volume control unit.  Another advantage to me is that the Chardonnay is a balanced design with balanced inputs and outputs.  To many that may not matter.  Also wish Don had kept the option of the variable gain. Bottom line is that if the "old school" volume control and remote don't bother you then the Supratek is more flexible and has the separate chassis power supply.  The Chardonnay will work with every amp I own while the Sachs is limited based on the sensitivities of the amp and the speaker combo.  Never asked Don but he might be willing to lower the gain on the preamp if asked before the build started.  As mine was a nearly new used unit didn't have the option to ask upfront.

[JackD]

Larry

There's no sound compromise in using the Pass amp in SE mode?

[morganc]

Tyson

Even if using the exact same input pair the Chardonnay is still a bit "warmer" sounding while the Sachs has more "drive"  The Supratek is more old school as it still uses Alps volume control so volume and mute are it for the remote as compared to the features on the Sachs remote as the result of using the Kozmo volume control unit.  Another advantage to me is that the Chardonnay is a balanced design with balanced inputs and outputs.  To many that may not matter.  Also wish Don had kept the option of the variable gain. Bottom line is that if the "old school" volume control and remote don't bother you then the Supratek is more flexible and has the separate chassis power supply.  The Chardonnay will work with every amp I own while the Sachs is limited based on the sensitivities of the amp and the speaker combo.  Never asked Don but he might be willing to lower the gain on the preamp if asked before the build started.  As mine was a nearly new used unit didn't have the option to ask upfront.

Your suspicion is correct, Don will use different Caps to adjust for different amps  that can be built to spec or he can guide you to diy as well for a used unit.

[Creed]

Thanks everyone for helping me figure this one out. I did consider Pass 250.5 used but the .8 series is costly. I can solder and looking inside the amp looks like a 5 minute job swapping caps. I did consider Dons 60 watt tube amp thinking it must have synergy, right. Anyone try his tube kt88 amp? I would like to get it right first time around I have read a lot of people are happy with the Pass Sachs combo.

[JackD]

Good to know as something closer to 12db would have made the preamp more versatile in my opinion. DIY is not my thing but with the SET 400 having an input sensitivity of almost 2.4 volts not an issue.

[JackD]

Creed
mresseguie is using the Sachs combo with Lou's Daedalus speakers.

[Creed]

The PS Audio BHK is also very interesting I’ve never heard one. I have a older maybe year 2005 PS Audio HCA-2 with Reference Audio Mods in a closet somewhere. I always found that amp to be slightly tube like very detailed but it’s rated at 150 watts but felt like that rating may be a little exaggerated. Still a nice amp but a little noisy. I’m sure PS Audio has improved over the years.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Larry

There's no sound compromise in using the Pass amp in SE mode?

You lose 6db but I can't really say if there was a significant change in sound as I used an AVA single ended preamp initially then went to a Pass X1 with XLR and them my BAT.  The 6db loss is only a big deal if your preamp is a low gain type and you like to play really loud.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Thanks everyone for helping me figure this one out. I did consider Pass 250.5 used but the .8 series is costly. I can solder and looking inside the amp looks like a 5 minute job swapping caps. I did consider Dons 60 watt tube amp thinking it must have synergy, right. Anyone try his tube kt88 amp? I would like to get it right first time around I have read a lot of people are happy with the Pass Sachs combo.

I would look for a 30.5 or 60.5 to 0.8 series Pass amp.  They would have plenty of power to drive your speakers.  Pass amps power numbers are underrated.  BAT is another amp to look at.

The AVA SET amps are great as well.  They have a beautiful midrange.

I have not heard this amp stereophile gave it a great review and their is a lot of buzz about it- NAD C298 using purifi modules.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-c-298-power-amplifier

[Big Red Machine]

I've had two on mine; VTV and the Cherry. Both mated well. Just preferred the Cherry to the VTV. Both Class "D" type amps. The Sachs is verry good and I would think just about most SS amps that can power your speakers properly would be okay with it.

[morganc]

I also have a Don Sachs with a Cherry Mehaschino and it’s a great pairing.   

[mresseguie]

Hi, all!

Creed,

I didn't notice this thread until after I had already answered your PM.

As much as I love Don's amp paired with his preamp, it does kick out some heat. In Oregon, this is only an issue for two or three months - and I have AC for those few months. My IceEdge 1200as2 amp sounds great with Don's preamp. Though I haven't heard the following amps yet, I have friends who own (and love) the following two: a Purifi based amp or a GAN amp. I'm not in a hurry, but I'd someday like to try a GAN amp just to hear for myself how they sound.

Oh. A little more background on the Hafler LX280 I mentioned in my PM. It was a very old <never updated> amp that sounded very tube-like. It paired wonderfully in my main system. The fellow who owns it finally sent it somewhere to have it updated with new caps and I don't know what else. Considering how inexpensive used Hafler amps sell for, you could give one a try.

If budget and room temperatures aren't an issue, I'd encourage you to consider a Modwright KWA150 (or even the SE model). AC member Aldcol brought his over to my home a couple times, and it is a wonderful amp. However, it is a heavy mother of an amp and it kicks out a lot of heat. I came <THIS CLOSE> to buying a gently used one last year, but fear of my wife's ire  and/or injuring my back kept me from doing so.

Michael

[Creed]

Thanks for the heads up on heat of the DS amp. I do have a/c which for everyone down here is a must. The Modwright if found used $3300-$3500 is in my top budget, I still have 2 kids in college so I have to be careful. Micheal how hot do the Don Sachs get is it excessive or out of line for a tube amp?

I notice you used an Ice amp, I’m not very up on these but I know you can even get them from parts express then you have manufactures from Rogue to Jeff Roland using them so I have always been a little confused on them. Which brand are you using?

I have a older PS Audio HCA-2 digital amp with full blown Reference Audio Mods that I could try for warmer weather but it’s hot here 9 -10 months of the year so that’s probably not going to work. It’s nice but not sure that’s the route to go.

I am just now  buying a Don Sachs preamp and it hasn’t even arrived yet so I’m trying to figure all this out.. I notice his older version had the left and right gain controls with silver face maybe from a couple years ago is there e a big difference between that and the new black face plate in sound performance? Having the gain knobs seem like that could have been an advantage. Thanks for everyone’s help

[mresseguie]

"Thanks for the heads up on heat of the DS amp. I do have a/c which for everyone down here is a must. The Modwright if found used $3300-$3500 is in my top budget, I still have 2 kids in college so I have to be careful. Micheal how hot do the Don Sachs get is it excessive or out of line for a tube amp?"

College tuition is a frightening thing now. We put our son through 7 years of it (undergrad + 3 yrs of Physical Therapy School), so I feel for you. Fortunately for our financial situation, we began saving/investing for this expense when he was 10 years old - and it still hurt. I've never compared my Kootenay 120 to other amps, so I can only give you an anecdotal response. I positioned my head directly over the amp to guage how much heat came my way, and <guess> it might be equivalent to a 300W(?) space heater. Most space heaters have 2 or 3 settings, and the lowest setting typically is around 700 or 800 watts, I think. [Is this a helpful analogy?] Think of how much heat your stove kicks out as you prepare a meal, or how much heat your TV generates. The amp produces far less heat than a stove, but <probably> more than a 65" TV.

When I first placed the Don Sachs amp in my system, I worried <unnecessarily in my opinion> about the heat. This worry was the main reason why I bought an IceEdge amp as backup. I actually switched over to the IceEdge amp during the first two or three summers, but the past two summers it has sat unused in my closet. The Kootenay 120 sounds a lot better to me than the IceEdge amp.

"I notice you used an Ice amp, I’m not very up on these but I know you can even get them from parts express then you have manufactures from Rogue to Jeff Roland using them so I have always been a little confused on them. Which brand are you using?"

The fellow who assembled my 1200as2 amp is no longer in business. I wouldn't recommend him even if he were still in business thanks to his beligerent attitude. The amp is not the issue - the man is  .  You could go with an IceEdge (and possibly Purifi, or GAN-based amp, but I have not heard these two) and quite likely be satisfied most of the time. However, if you heard Don's amp afterward, you'd understand why my IceEdge amp hasn't been used in nearly two years. I'm not knocking the IceEdge sound. It's just that Don's amp sounds better IMO.

"I have a older PS Audio HCA-2 digital amp with full blown Reference Audio Mods that I could try for warmer weather but it’s hot here 9 -10 months of the year so that’s probably not going to work. It’s nice but not sure that’s the route to go."

I have no experience with this unit, so I have nothing to say about it.

"I am just now buying a Don Sachs preamp and it hasn’t even arrived yet so I’m trying to figure all this out.. I notice his older version had the left and right gain controls with silver face maybe from a couple years ago is there e a big difference between that and the new black face plate in sound performance? Having the gain knobs seem like that could have been an advantage. Thanks for everyone’s help"

I am confident you're going to like this preamp - most people do. I own both the older version with adjustable gain dials and the black plate model with fixed gain. I love them both. I really like the adjustable gain capability, but not having it in my new Model 2 is not a deal breaker by any means. I bought the new version with the idea that I would sell the older one in order to try a different tube preamp. However, after thinking about how much more it would cost me to acquire one of the other preamps (new; not used) and how little I might receive from selling the older preamp, I decided it didn't make sense. I'm satisfied and do not feel a need to experiment with other preamps. The older unit is sitting in my vacation home's system.

Michael

[genjamon]

Morganc and BRM, what size output caps do you have in your Sachs?  I have wanted to try out the Cherry amps in the past, but was always turned off by the 20kohm input impedance, which seemed too low to work well with the Sachs without putting in some really large caps.  I currently have 1.5uF Miflex on one set of Sachs outputs and 2.2uF ODAMs on the other. 

[mresseguie]

Morganc and BRM, what size output caps do you have in your Sachs?  I have wanted to try out the Cherry amps in the past, but was always turned off by the 20kohm input impedance, which seemed too low to work well with the Sachs without putting in some really large caps.  I currently have 1.5uF Miflex on one set of Sachs outputs and 2.2uF ODAMs on the other.

How do you like the ODAMs? How does their presentation differ from the Miflex? Have you compared either to Jupiter Cu caps?

Sorry to pester you with questions.

Michael