[franSSS]

For those in the know. Which would you take home and why?

I like music to be musical, not sterile. I want it to be emotionally gripping. I dont need to hear the heart beat of flea in the background. But i dont mind if it there as long as the music is invigorating and captivating.

[geerock]

Maybe skip the Schitt?  Why not the ref 40 integrated?   Or......if you talk to Clayton I'm pretty sure you are going to get an A+ on an amp he recently got and that's Don Sachs Valhalla integrated. 

[Rusty Jefferson]

I would take the 40 or the Ultralinear over the Z10 for more headroom, that's just me.  If you can do the integrated version of either that would be better than putting a Freya in front of the Berning designed amplifier (imo). Dave's amplifiers are full bandwidth, clean and dynamic.  If you want to massage the sound, do it with your digital/analogue front end, cables, etc. The beauty of his designs are neutrally and lack of coloration. And no tube amplifiers control bass better than Berning ZOTL amplifiers because of the low output impedance, unique to the design.

[doggie]

+1 for the LTA integrated amps. I have used both the Z10i and the ULi with my new X5's and settled on the ULi. Perhaps then consider a NOS tube DAC to achieve your goal? Also consider a preamp or integrated with a remote volume control. Personally I find track volume levels to differ wildly so being able to adjust from your listening position is very useful.

For the same reasons as OP I am now rethinking my DAC to dial in my present system in. For me the biggest challenge has always been to find the sweet spot between detail retrieval and musical engagement. I love both.

[geerock]

Doggie
I use the ref 40 plus amp with Don Sachs pre and a Musical Paradise MP D2 mark 3 Tubed DAC.  The MP is a killer piece when using NOS tubes.  Plus it has user changeable caps, you can use 5 or 6 volt rectifier tubes, and 6.3 or 12 volt signal tubes.  It even has interchangeable chip sets from both AKM or ESS Pro 9038.  Talk about tube rolling!  You can roll caps and chipsets in this thing.  It will play DSD 512 and PCM to crazy sampling rates.  I've tried DAC's at 3 and 4 times the price and always sent them back. 

[franSSS]

Thank you guys. Most help full!

@geerock.

Did you compare the amber 3 vs the paradise at all?

[geerock]

No.  Didn't try that one.  Chord hugo 2.  Ps audio direct stream junior.  Auralac g1.  Schitt yggdrasil.  One other. 
I will say this....lots of great stuff out there that won't break the bank.  Spending tons of cash on a DAC doesnt make it better.  I heard a friends LTA Border Patrol DAC with some if the extras in it that cost a total of about 1500 bucks, and it played Tidal Masters through Roon.  This is an R2R with no over sampling or filtering.  Tge friend uses Roon to filter to his liking.  A very enjoyable listening experience.  It just worked with his setup which played out of Klipsch speakers.

[mick wolfe]

Maybe skip the Schitt?  Why not the ref 40 integrated?   Or......if you talk to Clayton I'm pretty sure you are going to get an A+ on an amp he recently got and that's Don Sachs Valhalla integrated.

As much as I like my Freya+, I have to agree. If the OP's eye is on the LTA gear, I would stay in that camp.... be it an integrated or separates.

[hifiguy2008]

Hi - Yep, it's just like everyone else has said. With all due respect to the Freya, the LTA stuff is simply in anouther league (or two) up. The longer you live with the LTA sound, nuance and organic musicality, the more you love it. I have been using an Z10i in both speaker and headphone mode for about a year now. You couldn't pry it out of my cold dead hands.

[franSSS]

Hi - Yep, it's just like everyone else has said. With all due respect to the Freya, the LTA stuff is simply in anouther league (or two) up. The longer you live with the LTA sound, nuance and organic musicality, the more you love it. I have been using an Z10i in both speaker and headphone mode for about a year now. You couldn't pry it out of my cold dead hands.

Just what i wanted to hear. i think i may have moved up to the Z40 I reference but somewhere someone mentioned they found the Z10i more "musical". Granted that depends on a couple of factors. So i am a bit pressed between going to z40i or remaining Z10i

[franSSS]

No.  Didn't try that one.  Chord hugo 2.  Ps audio direct stream junior.  Auralac g1.  Schitt yggdrasil.  One other. 
I will say this....lots of great stuff out there that won't break the bank.  Spending tons of cash on a DAC doesnt make it better.  I heard a friends LTA Border Patrol DAC with some if the extras in it that cost a total of about 1500 bucks, and it played Tidal Masters through Roon.  This is an R2R with no over sampling or filtering.  Tge friend uses Roon to filter to his liking.  A very enjoyable listening experience.  It just worked with his setup which played out of Klipsch speakers.

Agree! Wish i was in a possition to "Audition" the gear.

[franSSS]

+1 for the LTA integrated amps. I have used both the Z10i and the ULi with my new X5's and settled on the ULi. Perhaps then consider a NOS tube DAC to achieve your goal? Also consider a preamp or integrated with a remote volume control. Personally I find track volume levels to differ wildly so being able to adjust from your listening position is very useful.

For the same reasons as OP I am now rethinking my DAC to dial in my present system in. For me the biggest challenge has always been to find the sweet spot between detail retrieval and musical engagement. I love both.

And which DACS are you considering? There seems to be quite a few stunning ones around these days. However i am limited by budget.

[doggie]

And which DACS are you considering? There seems to be quite a few stunning ones around these days. However i am limited by budget.

With my X5's I started with an MDHT Orchid tube DAC which I liked a lot and is very reasonably priced relative to its excellent SQ. I then moved to the well received solid state R2R Denefrips Pontus. It was a winner so I lost all of my self control and moved up to the Terminator 2. I believe that will be a keeper.

I run it in NOS mode and am currently experimenting with feeding it up-sampled DSD128 from my Roon server. That sounds great. I now have a Hermes DDC coming so that I can experiment with using the I2S input of the T2 and it's clock outputs back to the DDC.

[franSSS]

With my X5's I started with an MDHT Orchid tube DAC which I liked a lot and is very reasonably priced relative to its excellent SQ. I then moved to the well received solid state R2R Denefrips Pontus. It was a winner so I lost all of my self control and moved up to the Terminator 2. I believe that will be a keeper.

Exciting when expectations are being fulfilled!!! Thank you for the feedback. Happy listerning.

[sockpit]

Maybe we need a thread that discusses DACs that go well with Spatial/LTA.  I've been eyeing the Orchid and the Border Patrol because I do experience fatigue from the highly resolving character of my LTA Z10i and M5 Sapphire combo.  That may be heresy, or my DAC (and Exogal Comet, but I doubt it), or just the way my brain/ear processes sound.

[Rusty Jefferson]

I found the Exogal Comet to be quite fatiguing in 2 systems I heard one demonstrated in.  Sapphire and LTA were (pre-pandemic) showing with the Lampizator Amber dac at several Fests. It was a very good combination and as I recall, the whole system was about $10k new including cables.

[sockpit]

Thanks for the feedback on the Exogal.  I’ve not compared it to anything seriously. Have been eyeing denafrips, BP, mhdt, and other R2R fare that are now all the rage.  Hate to dump the Comet chasing greener grass, though. BP has a trial at least.  The Amber has gotten quite expensive since the early show price.

[franSSS]

Thanks for the feedback on the Exogal.  I’ve not compared it to anything seriously. Have been eyeing denafrips, BP, mhdt, and other R2R fare that are now all the rage.  Hate to dump the Comet chasing greener grass, though. BP has a trial at least.  The Amber has gotten quite expensive since the early show price.

LTA sells both the lampizator and the Orchid i believe. Perhaps ask them? In addition the LTA Z10i Anticables amber combo was named best sound on show at a number of shows by all accounts. Chances they will pair it with an overly bright, tiring dac is not good. To get synergy right is not always a given even taking the best money can buy. One of the reasons i feel there is value in taking the above mentioned combo as is. As for upgrades, its like cellphones, the 1st and 2nd upgrade is normally to some extent minor. But the 3rd generation later compared to the original seems significant.

[sockpit]

Thanks. In defense of the Exogal, I'm not convinced it's a bright or fatiguing DAC.  I've not seen this reported by anyone who has lived with it. I think it's a great product.  I suspect my problem is this: when recordings are high quality, this combination is really splendid, even breathtaking, and entirely non-fatiguing. But well done recordings are not typical of so much music I'd like to listen to. So one is tempted to move to something more euphonic like the BP to fix the problems in so many recordings rather than live with the splendor of good recordings and the irritations of the bad.

And then there is the problem that today's silver bullet will be quickly overtaken by further improvements in DACs. Hard to know when jump in or stop.

[Mr. Big]

Sockpit, put an AQ Hurrican power cord on it. You'll be very happy.