[tortoiseman2542]

Hey all!

I am looking into having someone build me a GR Research X-LS cabinet and am trying to figure out what the old AV123 Moho Natural finish wood veneer is.  Best I can find on the internet is it may be a type of South American Mahogany but I can't find anything that looks remotely close grain wise on the various veneer sites.  I am guessing they used a dye of some sort along with wood veneer but can't find definitive info.

Does anyone know what wood veneer AV123 Moho Natural is based off of? 

Thanks!
Robert

[Peter J]

I suspect your endeavor will be difficult at best. Moho is suggestive of Mahogany, but if memory serves, it doesn't look like any mahogany I remember. Are you trying to match something?

This is from memory, but Hickory might get you in the ballpark. Sometimes called Calico Hickory, because of the varying light and dark. I wetted this with thinner for a better idea of what it would look like. It's a little nasty to work with, being hard an somewhat brittle. Prized many years ago for tool handles. Axes and shovels, etc.

[tortoiseman2542]

Peter,

Not trying to match anything I have, so flexibility on finished product is there.  I just loved that old finish and am constantly on the lookout for it. 

Robert

[WGH]

Take a look at the Santos Rosewood veneer, some has sapwood edges if you like the striped look. Not exactly the same but better.

[tortoiseman2542]

I actually think I got something I found close.  Pau Ferro seems to be decently close.  This link has some smaller pieces and it looks darn close.  Thoughts?

https://certainlywood.com/images-menu.php?item=WS%20PAU%20FERRO%201504-11


Robert

[Peter J]

I think if you like it, you like it.

Raw veneer is somewhat more demanding to work with, and something narrow would need to be bookmatched. Does your builder have that capability? You'll also want a fair bit of overage.

Pau Ferro is often sorted for that deep dark color, the sapwood being less desirable to many folks.

[tortoiseman2542]

I think if you like it, you like it.

Raw veneer is somewhat more demanding to work with, and something narrow would need to be bookmatched. Does your builder have that capability? You'll also want a fair bit of overage.

Pau Ferro is often sorted for that deep dark color, the sapwood being less desirable to many folks.

I'm finding various versions of this called different things including; santos rosewood, pau ferro, rio rosewood... etc...  It does look pretty darn close depending on cut.  I am finding it in raw paper backed veneer.  It's very tempting to pick some up and try on my own to veneer a cabinet.  I'd mess it up more than likely though and why I'll probably stick with someone that knows what they are doing. 

The sapwood in a gloss or piano gloss would be sick though. 

Robert

[WGH]

That looks like a good match. I would always cut off the sapwood when veneering, that was my design choice.

I think Jim Salk only uses raw veneer. The veneer is applied using a vacuum bag veneer press and Titebond Cold Press Veneer Glue. The speaker cabinets have to be well built or they will be crushed in the press.

Whenever I veneer I also use a vacuum bag press and have used both the Titebond Cold Press and West epoxy. I used the epoxy when the bond needed to be waterproof and weatherproof as in custom entry doors. The vacuum press is the gold standard when applying raw veneer, I never had a bubble, wrinkle or de-lamination in over 25 years, each layup came out perfect and dead flat.

The mesquite entry doors for the Mesa Community College Art Gallery were some of my most complicated veneered doors, each door of the double doors are close to 4' wide by 8' high. The random veneer concept is by DWL Architects.
Failure was not an option.

[tortoiseman2542]

Beautiful work WGH!

Robert

[mlundy57]

Here's Pau Ferro / Santos Rosewood with a Super Blonde Shellac finish on a pair of GR-Research N3's

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Gorgeous!
Been listening to a pair of N3s the last few days they're a great speaker.

[tortoiseman2542]

Beautiful work Mike!  Those look amazing!

Robert

[mlundy57]

Gorgeous!
Been listening to a pair of N3s the last few days they're a great speaker.

That they are for sure. They're my favorite box style speaker. Too bad they're no longer available.

I've had these for 7 years and listen to them almost daily. They're in the living room system. Which my wife informed me when I hooked these up for the first time, was her system and these were her speakers. I could go build myself something else.

Beautiful work Mike!  Those look amazing!

Robert

Thanks. The finishing style used is French Polish.

Mike

[tortoiseman2542]

That they are for sure. They're my favorite box style speaker. Too bad they're no longer available.

Thanks. The finishing style used is French Polish.

Mike

Could one do a high gloss with a french polish?  Maybe not piano per se but shiny.  lol

Robert

[mlundy57]

Could one do a high gloss with a french polish?  Maybe not piano per se but shiny.  lol

Robert

Absolutely. These actually are a very high gloss rivaling piano gloss lacquer. My photography skills are lacking so the pics don't reveal it.

French Polish can achieve any depth of luster you want. The number of layers applied determine the depth of luster. Think of a high end   hand rubbed guitar finish.

Shellac always goes on high gloss. It has to be rubbed down if you want a semi-gloss or satin finish.

The issue is how much time and elbow grease you want to put into it.

[EdwardT]

Mike,
Your photography skills are fine, I can see how glossy the finish is just by looking at the reflection on the sides in that shot with the system stand. Like a mirror, that's really nice. Did you use a traditional wool pad when rubbing that in?

[mlundy57]

Mike,
Your photography skills are fine, I can see how glossy the finish is just by looking at the reflection on the sides in that shot with the system stand. Like a mirror, that's really nice. Did you use a traditional wool pad when rubbing that in?

I used a pad I made with cheesecloth for the inner pad and linen for the outer pad. I used BT&C Super Blonde shellac flakes made up to a one pound cut for the initial layers to seal the veneer and lay down the base. Then I diluted the shellac to 1/2 pound cut for all the bodying layers which consisted of three straight passes, circular passes until the pad became tacky, then hard straight passes to smooth out the circular marks. I used a second pad with straight alcohol for the blending/burnishing layers. Normally denatured alcohol is used but I prefer PGA like Everclear. It has a higher alcohol content than denatured so it flashes off faster and it doesn't stink like denatured.

The schedule I used was 3-5 bodying layers (depending on when my arm gave out) followed by 3 blending/burnishing layers. This was one round. I applied 5 rounds. The more rounds you apply the deeper the luster.

[tortoiseman2542]

Mike,

What is the difference between a French polish and whatever AV123 did back in the day for what they called a “piano” finish?  Given the little they up charged I can’t imagine what they did was very complicated or costly. I assume it was a far less quality process than a French polish.

Robert

[mlundy57]

French Polish is a hand applied and rubbed finish consisting of only two ingredients, shellac flakes and alcohol. It is very labor intensive. The only equipment needed is the applicator pad and a container for the shellac.

It is one of the least durable finishes but is easily repaired.

Commerical piano gloss finishes are done with high tech products like 2k catalyzed lacquers or polyurethanes. These are some of the most durable finishes but are very difficult if not impossible to repair without sanding at least the damaged panel if not the whole piece back to bare wood. These finishes require specialized spray equipment, safety equipment/procedures, and a paint booth to apply and buff out.