[forky]

Hello,

Just found this site last night via a link from another forum (of which I found from google). One of my goals (lack of a better term) from when I was a kid was to have a nice hifi system. In 1991 (age 21) I spent all of my $ on a Rotel Amp/preamp/cd player and Mirage M460s which I still have and they still sound very good to me. However the Rotel is crackling and although I can and will get that fixed it is time for that system to be downgraded to another room.

I bought the current system from Tom and Gifted Listener Audio (Centreville, VA)  in their old location (upstairs in a small home that was converted to an apt) and visited GLA regularly until around 1997 or so. I went back in around 2010 and Tom still remembered my name (!) and the Rotel and Mirages. When I made the decision to buy a new system the first thing I did was google GLA and saw Tom closed down last year. .

I was somewhat product knowledgeable from 88-98 and haven't' looked at a hifi review in over 20 years and just the 1 visit to GLA 11 years ago so I was starting from scratch knowledge wise and just went down a rabit hole of research over the past month. So off to google I went and searched forums, reviews and youtube reviews (LOTS of New Record Day!) and wound up ordering the following:

-M3s (ordered a few weeks ago so thinking I'll have them in late Aug/early Sept
-Primivera 300 Int amp (wrestled w/ buying a Z10 but went with this) - received just a few hours ago
-Marantz SA-KA1 Ruby CD/SACD player - received a few days ago, still in box
-Black Mesh Oval 9 speaker wire/cable - purchased last night after reading a few reviews in the speaker wire thread here. (Rocket 33's delivered w/ amp today so will compare these)
-2 DH Power plus power cords for the amp and cd player (just ordered so will use stock for a while)
-DH Silver Sonic from CD player to amp.

I'm pretty confident all of those choices are solid and should have everything set up this weekend and will listen through the Mirages until the M3s arrive.

I also have a Technics 1200 M3D which is the only thing I haven't replaced yet because - well it works fine and think it will sound "good enough" until I can upgrade.

I listen to CD and Vinyl about 50/50. The only thing I bought for Vinyl /TT so far is a new Dynavector 20x2 (thanks NRD) which will be here tomorrow.  Oh and I bought a cheapish phonostage for the time being -  Pro-Ject Box S2.

Just curious what turntables and phonostages you all are using and if happy with them? I have been researching them vs. upgrading my 1200 and will probably buy something new. Budget is TBD right now - currently not much after buying all the stuff above but in about 6 mos I'm thinking $6-10k total. Could go higher but would prefer to stay in that range. Looking at the Pure Fidelity stuff (thanks NRD again) and the Rega Playnar 10 but open to other suggestions. I've spent a good amount of time looking at phonostages and have pretty much no idea what to consider there.

Thanks.

[franSSS]

Welcome to the forum! Hope you find it most enjoyable!

Just like you i can do 1000s of hours research. hehehee. Not because i want to but cos i dont have much of an alternative in my part of the world. I too have bought stuff on rave reviews. Whilst good it was not always magic.

i too agonized over what to get with the Sapphires. In the end i opted to get the complete system Clayton punts at the shows. with one exception. A smaller version of the Sapphires. Some reviewers felt it was the best sound they heard at like a number (3?) trade shows. Who am i to argue? So instead of me re inventing the wheel and taking hours, months and lots of loot to work out what sounds best i decided to trust the reviewers and Clayton. Seems when you go to show to going to show with the best possible combo. So i ended up buying the package. At least i know dont need to go to a trade show to hear the combo. I can hear it in me own house.

i love the gear your are getting though. Hope you are bowled over by it in a nice way

[franSSS]

Did you get  the Primivera 300 Int amp (wrestled w/ buying a Z10 but went with this) - received just a few hours ago Or do you mean the Primaluna 300?

i love the idea the Z10 is a basically dead silent even at high volumes and high sensitivity. I believe this is a major advantage over the Primaluna 300 according to some reviewers. For some this does not matter, but i am ocd lol.

Are you going to open your boxes or are you waiting for everything to arrive?

[TomS]

Hello,

Just found this site last night via a link from another forum (of which I found from google). One of my goals (lack of a better term) from when I was a kid was to have a nice hifi system. In 1991 (age 21) I spent all of my $ on a Rotel Amp/preamp/cd player and Mirage M460s which I still have and they still sound very good to me. However the Rotel is crackling and although I can and will get that fixed it is time for that system to be downgraded to another room.

I bought the current system from Tom and Gifted Listener Audio (Centreville, VA)  in their old location (upstairs in a small home that was converted to an apt) and visited GLA regularly until around 1997 or so. I went back in around 2010 and Tom still remembered my name (!) and the Rotel and Mirages. When I made the decision to buy a new system the first thing I did was google GLA and saw Tom closed down last year. .

I was somewhat product knowledgeable from 88-98 and haven't' looked at a hifi review in over 20 years and just the 1 visit to GLA 11 years ago so I was starting from scratch knowledge wise and just went down a rabit hole of research over the past month. So off to google I went and searched forums, reviews and youtube reviews (LOTS of New Record Day!) and wound up ordering the following:

-M3s (ordered a few weeks ago so thinking I'll have them in late Aug/early Sept
-Primivera 300 Int amp (wrestled w/ buying a Z10 but went with this) - received just a few hours ago
-Marantz SA-KA1 Ruby CD/SACD player - received a few days ago, still in box
-Black Mesh Oval 9 speaker wire/cable - purchased last night after reading a few reviews in the speaker wire thread here. (Rocket 33's delivered w/ amp today so will compare these)
-2 DH Power plus power cords for the amp and cd player (just ordered so will use stock for a while)
-DH Silver Sonic from CD player to amp.

I'm pretty confident all of those choices are solid and should have everything set up this weekend and will listen through the Mirages until the M3s arrive.

I also have a Technics 1200 M3D which is the only thing I haven't replaced yet because - well it works fine and think it will sound "good enough" until I can upgrade.

I listen to CD and Vinyl about 50/50. The only thing I bought for Vinyl /TT so far is a new Dynavector 20x2 (thanks NRD) which will be here tomorrow.  Oh and I bought a cheapish phonostage for the time being -  Pro-Ject Box S2.

Just curious what turntables and phonostages you all are using and if happy with them? I have been researching them vs. upgrading my 1200 and will probably buy something new. Budget is TBD right now - currently not much after buying all the stuff above but in about 6 mos I'm thinking $6-10k total. Could go higher but would prefer to stay in that range. Looking at the Pure Fidelity stuff (thanks NRD again) and the Rega Playnar 10 but open to other suggestions. I've spent a good amount of time looking at phonostages and have pretty much no idea what to consider there.

Thanks.

With that kind of phono budget I'd look long and hard at the Modwright PH9.0x phono stage.

[forky]

Thanks All.

I don’t see a multi-quote function but here  are some replies:

Fran, thanks! That makes sense. I’ll see what Clayton is using for phonostage and  TT. Thanks – psyched to put it all together.

Yes the Primavea was delivered earlier today. I think I’ll be happy w/ it but if I have any doubts maybe I’ll drive it up to Linear (about 60-70 mins away) and see if they will allow me to do a comparison.

I had planned on putting it together tonight and over the weekend but I’m heading out of town tomorrow for the weekend (plans came through) so will probably be early next week. Maybe I’ll stay up late tonight and get it done before I leave.

With the cart arriving tomorrow I’ll have everything here except the M3s so will listen w/ my Mirage speakers  - which I still very much like but know the M3s will blow them away.

Tom, thanks I think that is the one that NRD had reviewed – I will put that at the top of the list.

[doggie]

Welcome. I think that you will have a really enjoyable system. I visited The Gifted Listener probably 30 years ago. Not many real audiophile shops left in our area...sniff.

I went with X5's and the LTA Z10i. I have an all digital system with no CD's, just files played via Roon with Qobuz.

[geerock]

I'm guessing you mean Primaluna, not primivera.😀
I have the X5's and drive them with the LTA Ref 40 amp and a Don Sachs all in preamp.  And I also ditched the CD player and went with Tidal Masters thru Roon and then to a modified tube DAC.  Those hi res streams are just like being there.  The finest system ice ever had and one of the finest systems I've heard....period.  Maybe try the LTA10. Don't let the low wattage of the 10 scare you off.  The sensitivity of the Spatials will leave you room to spare on the volume.  It is a stunning piece with Spatials.  You get a no questions asked trial period and those David Berning designed LTA's are giant killers at the price they are offered at.  I've heard both.  To my hearing, it's no contest.

[S Clark]

Your Dynavector 20x2?L?) is a great choice.  Ron at NRD has his hooked up to a Dodd phono pre (I know because I sold it to him).  I also have that cartridge, and phono preamps that match well are most of the Graham Slee line, the Jolida JD9, and I currently have a Hagermann Trumpet hooked up.  The little Vista phono preamps are also pretty good and half the price of the others. 
As far as replacing the 1200, you might look at upgrades as more effecient option.  The 1200 is a pretty good platform, and there is soooo much on line about improving it. 

[forky]

Ah, right, Primaluna. I guess I’ll see how they sound and If I have a question in my mind I’ll call LTA and see if I can do a comparison and if I like LTA I will buy and return my amp. I know this is silly but one of the reviewers said that the Z10 was lacking bass and if you listened to a lot of rock that may not be the amp to go w/. That wasn’t how I based my decision but was entered into my thinking – that and saving $1k although that was only part also as I just spent $700 on speaker wire and another $500 on power cords in the past few days.. Clayton said he has a number of customers w/ the Evo300 amp and they like it. We’ll see.

Yes 5 weeks ago I didn’t even know what a DAC was and hadn’t even thought about streaming into a system even though I listen to Spotify and YouTube on my PC when I’m working….so I’m getting caught up on this stuff. I’ll look into streaming after I get my phono straightened out.

S Clark, yes that is the same cart – and Ron’s vid sold me on that (he is a great salesman for a reviewer!). Thanks for the info! Just what I was looking for. Will research those. Have heard about upgrading the 1200 and may go that route as I’m not trying to spend any unnecessary $ but want my other components as good as my speakers, amp (which apparently may need improvement) and CD player. OTOH spending $10k on a TT and phonostage will probably be a bit “beyond” those – the amp anyway.

I guess I’m saying I want a consistent system without any glaring weak spots with the goal of an “airy / spacey” system / soundstage – realism. My Cerwin Vega AT15 days are long gone (but were fun!) - but will still listen to a lot of rock .......... and loud when I can get away with it (when my wife and dog are not home!).

[rharden]

I’m driving my Spatial M3’s with a Primaluna Dialog HP integrated and I’m pretty happy with the sound. There is some burn in time to get the most from your tubes. The combination of new tubes and new M3’s will probably sound a little (or a lot) thin out of the box and you’ll be wondering where the bass is. Give it 50 hours or so to loosen up the drivers and you’ll start hearing what these speakers combined with a good tube amp can do. Clayton says 100-150 hours for the speakers to fully break in, but I decided I had the right speakers for my setup at about 50 hours.

On the Primaluna, I see you’ve ordered a power cord. I was shocked at how much difference it made in dynamics and weight when I replaced the stock power cord with an Anticables cord. And I recently rolled in a new set of KT120 tubes to replace the stock EL34s. The KT120’s provide more bass extension, a little more top end, and seem to be a really good match with the M3 Sapphires. I switch back and forth between pentode and triode mode depending on what I’m listening to.

I liked the LTA integrated a lot when I heard it a few weeks back at a show in CA, but I’m pretty happy with my Primaluna.

[toocool4]

Welcome to AudioCircle forky.

Doing research like reading reviews / YouTube is good as it gives you something to look at, take it all with a big pinch of salt. Everyone has their bias’s / preferences, you cannot substitute these reviews for listening for yourself.
I don’t buy anything until I have listen to it and preferably in my own listening room, just because someone else likes it does not mean you will like it or it will work in your room.
What I am saying is don’t part with your money on someone else’s say so, use your own ears and you can’t go far wrong as only you know what you like.

Good luck with your audio journey.

[doggie]

Welcome to AudioCircle forky.

Doing research like reading reviews / YouTube is good as it gives you something to look at, take it all with a big pinch of salt. Everyone has their bias’s / preferences, you cannot substitute these reviews for listening for yourself.
I don’t buy anything until I have listen to it and preferably in my own listening room, just because someone else likes it does not mean you will like it or it will work in your room.
What I am saying is don’t part with your money on someone else’s say so, use your own ears and you can’t go far wrong as only you know what you like.

I would agree that there is no substitute for listening to equipment in your own space but with something like the Spatials even getting them there on trial can be costly, time consuming, and even a physical challenge. My X5s came on a palette and each of the two boxes weigh about 100#. The speakers just by themselves weigh ~80#. Getting them into our basement and unpacking was not easy. I would not want to repack them and ship them back. Additionally shipping freight across the country both ways could easily be $500+. The good news is that for me these are end game speakers. I would tweak the rest of my system before considering returning them.

My point is there are very few audio stores that sell or even demo the kind of niche equipment that many of us are interested in. Many high value items are now direct sales and some come from overseas. If one has an expensive system and can afford the time and money to take in equipment on trial that is great but for most of us are stuck with extensive reading of both online reviews and word of mouth testimony. Doing endless online vetting has become essential and still has financial risk.

Having said all of this, I doubt that Clayton gets many returns, if any. I seldom see his equipment being re-sold online.

[abomwell]

Yesterday a pair of X5's were listed on Audio Circle's "Trading Post" due to a medical issue causing a sudden move.

Al

[RonP]

With that kind of phono budget I'd look long and hard at the Modwright PH9.0x phono stage.

+1

I have the 9.0 and will get the "X" upgrade at some point over the next year.

[S Clark]

Forky, is your Dynavector a low output or a high output?  That will make a difference as to which phonostage will interact well. 

[bbybaudio]

Hi, driving my X5s with Primaluna Dialogue HP Premium Integrated produced after the capacitor upgrade. Sounds amazing. I have a Don Sachs Valhalla Integrated ordered. Most likely will keep both as I like being able to switch from ultra linear to triode on the fly, and tube rolling in the Primaluna is a lot of fun. My phono is either an Oracle Delphi MkIV with Morch UP4 arm or a VPI Prime, using the Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC Star cartridge. Phono pre is a Manley Chinook with way upgraded tubes. Digital is identical to Geerocks, MP D2 MK3 Deluxe with upgraded capacitors and tubes. Once the DS integrated arrives (Sept/Oct) I will post a comparison between it and the PL with the X5s. Have fun with your new system!

[geerock]

I have a Don Sachs Valhalla Integrated ordered. Most likely will keep both as I like being able to switch from ultra linear to triode on the fly, and tube rolling in the Primaluna is a lot of fun. My phono is either an Oracle Delphi MkIV with Morch UP4 arm or a VPI Prime, using the Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC Star cartridge. Phono pre is a Manley Chinook with way upgraded tubes. Digital is identical to Geerocks, MP D2 MK3 Deluxe with upgraded capacitors and tubes. Once the DS integrated arrives (Sept/Oct) I will post a comparison between it and the PL with the X5s. Have fun with your new system!

bbybaudio
I believe you are going to love the Valhalla.  I know Clayton tried that unit out and loved it.  Don wants to make me one but I have his all in pre going into that LTA Reference 40 with all the factory upgrades.  It is just a stunning combo.  I'm sure that 6sn7 based Valhalla with whatever power tubes you decide to go with is going to be right there with it.  That MP D2 mk3 is some piece of equipment, no?  A giant killer if there ever was one.  I feed it with a Small Green Computer and an OpticalRendu for streaming Tidal Masters / Roon.  You're going to be having a lot of fun.

[bbybaudio]

Geerock, thanks. Looking forward to receiving the Valhalla. I like LTA a lot but Clayton suggested I would really like the Valhalla. Now just have to wait. Likely will sell Oracle Delphi rig in the interim. Cheers and happy listening!

[forky]

I’m driving my Spatial M3’s with a Primaluna Dialog HP integrated and I’m pretty happy with the sound. There is some burn in time to get the most from your tubes. The combination of new tubes and new M3’s will probably sound a little (or a lot) thin out of the box and you’ll be wondering where the bass is. Give it 50 hours or so to loosen up the drivers and you’ll start hearing what these speakers combined with a good tube amp can do. Clayton says 100-150 hours for the speakers to fully break in, but I decided I had the right speakers for my setup at about 50 hours.

On the Primaluna, I see you’ve ordered a power cord. I was shocked at how much difference it made in dynamics and weight when I replaced the stock power cord with an Anticables cord. And I recently rolled in a new set of KT120 tubes to replace the stock EL34s. The KT120’s provide more bass extension, a little more top end, and seem to be a really good match with the M3 Sapphires. I switch back and forth between pentode and triode mode depending on what I’m listening to.

I liked the LTA integrated a lot when I heard it a few weeks back at a show in CA, but I’m pretty happy with my Primaluna.

This I like to hear!

I got to listen to the new amp and cd player through my old Mirages at a decent volume just now and have the following observations with a note that I keep reading about breakin so will be patient:

-Rock with heavy guitar isn't so great yet. Too much midrange and not enough bass. when I was a kid and had an equalizer I had somewhat of a U w/ a few up or down in the U. With Godsmacks "Whatever" it sounded more like an upside down V - all midrange - not quite that bad but wasn't great.  However, Voodoo, which is a much "cleaner" song sounded incredible! Best I have heard on these speakers and couldn't ask for more except........a bit more bass. I may order the K120s asap!

-I also listen to a lot of electronic music - I read a review a few weeks ago on some component and they had chosen the Tosca / Suzuki album. I have that cd and haven't heard it in ages and WOW again. Completely blown away. It is a CLEAN recording and sounds incredible. Highly recommended. Bass seemed fine.

-Back to rock and Alice and Chain's Jar of Flies - sounds mostly great except........not enough bass!

-back to electornic and this one is the one that I had been looking forward to because it is so "dynamic" and again clean but is a dj mix from vinyl and you can sometimes here the crackes and pops (on a cd) - it is James Zabiela - Life and another WOW - unbelievable. keep in mind I haven't heard music through a tube amp in over 20 years.

So far I'm extremely impressed with electronic music and slightly disappointed with rock.....which is most of my listening so looking forward to the bass "coming in".

[forky]

Welcome to AudioCircle forky.

Doing research like reading reviews / YouTube is good as it gives you something to look at, take it all with a big pinch of salt. Everyone has their bias’s / preferences, you cannot substitute these reviews for listening for yourself.
I don’t buy anything until I have listen to it and preferably in my own listening room, just because someone else likes it does not mean you will like it or it will work in your room.
What I am saying is don’t part with your money on someone else’s say so, use your own ears and you can’t go far wrong as only you know what you like.

Good luck with your audio journey.

Appreciate this and well taken but the one thing I don't have is time. I work about 60-80 hours per week, 6 days a week (except not working tomorrow) and just don't have much time to do much of anything (mortgage biz and rates still near all time lows) - once rates go back up and things settle down I'll have more time but one thing I do seem to trust a bit more are forums and read mostly great reviews on everything I've purchased. I also live somewhat in the boonies (Western Loudoun VA) and is a hike to any decent stereo stores.

That said, if Gifted Listener were still open I would have made the trip to Centreville 4 weekends ago.

Although I hate returning things, if the 300 doesn't show more bass (I know I have to get in a lot of hours before the return window closes) I may return it. But....read more than a dozen posts on another board that more bass will come around 10 hours and again in other increments (50 mentioned above).