Denon 2900 - not satisfied, help me improve for $1200-1300

Loftprojection · « **on:** 20 Mar 2005, 12:42 am »

Hello, I finally bought myself a Denon 2900 because I could not believe the video of this unit compared to my Cambridge 540D. I'm using the unit in 5.1 analog because my HT receiver is only Dolby Pro (Arcam AV50).

Now, as satisfied as I am with the 2900 video performance, I am really not satisfied with it's analog audio performance. My Cambridge 540D was giving me a much nicer musical performance for redbook CDs and it was a fraction of the price of the Denon. For HT sound I guess the Denon is ok but for CDs I just don't like it.

So now I'm not sure what to do. I could spend some money and get myself a nice CD player. I already have a few in mind, the Creek CD50-MKII and Jolida JD100. However, the other day I read a thread that was talking about a "tube buffer". I can't find it anymore but maybe this could be an interesting option that would improve both redbook CD performance and enhance the HT performance as well. Anyone know about this?

I also saw various sites that offer mods but I'm a bit reluctant about this. It maybe the greatest thing but it's a lot of money to throw out without knowing if you will be satisfied after.

Anyway, I hope some of you can help me with this decision. Should I just buy a CD player or are there any other options in the pre-amp, DAC, tube buffer,... stuff for max $1200-1300?

Thanks for your help

Rocket · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 01:11 am »

Hi,

I just had a scout around for mods to your denon 2900 but these are out of your price range.

I would have a look at a good quality dac to add to your denon and use it as a transport for cd's. I have a perpetual technologies p3a dac modded by modwright and it is a great dac. I wouldn't buy a stock one as i think there are better ones available for the price.

You could look at the ack dack!, channel islands dac, bel canto (secondhand). All would significantly improve the sound your getting.

Regards

Rod

Loftprojection · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 01:45 am »

Rod, do you think with one of the DAC you are suggesting I would get better sound in redbook CDs than a dedicated CD player like the Creek or Jolida? Or a close enough sound but would benefit also in HT? Thanks.

GHM · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 02:21 am »

I know alot of folks are skeptical of the mods. I was one of those people as well. It took hearing my player with a Super clock 3 and Power supply mod to change all of this.

There's no real way to describe it. The difference is drastic with these types of upgrades. If your down stream components are up to par you will hear it instantly! The Dacs may also have a positive effect. I've tried the Dac route. It didn't work for me. The differences in play back weren't very noticeable in my system at the time.

You can get a Clock upgrade and power supply upgrade for less than $900. It should improve your playback across the board. All of this time I figured digital would always have some sore spots. Like brittleness and harshness on certain Cds. Some of those same Cds now sound near LP quality no kidding!

One of the fellows who had a 4960 Toshiba modded after mine. Conducted a little shoot out against a $11,000 Linn Uni Disk.

To his surprise and the owner of the Linn. The little Tosh equaled it in audio playback. That sounds nuts doesn't it. It will until you hear your player with some of the same upgrades. I will never again buy a stock cd/dvd player.Unless I've already made preparations to send it in for modding.

After seeing this shootout . I found a review of the Linn done by Stereophile. To my surprise the things the reviewer described about the Linn. Were some of the same things I was hearing from the Modded Tosh. He also had the Sony SCD-XA777ES on hand for this Stereophile review. The owner of the SC3 4960 owned the Sony SCD-XA777ES . He concured that the Tosh soundly spanked this $3000 player easily in audio playback. The only way to understand it ..is to hear it.

Good Luck !

Rocket · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 05:11 am »

Hi,

I haven't heard the jolida or creek cdp's and recommend either getting the denon modded or a small dac for your system. Otherwise you are adding another component to your system.

How much do the jolida and creek's cost? Have you heard them in your system? To be honest i would avoid purchasing equipment for your system if you haven't heard it in your own home. I recently bought a ps audio hca - 2 after reading the excellent reviews by audiophiles and reviewers. I was really disappointed with the amp until i modded it.

If you can get an inexpensive mod for your denon i would try that but sinking $1500us into mods is expensive. Contact Dan at Modwright and he may be able to help you.

My stock perpetual technologies p3a was no better than my cheap pioneer pds 507 (with g&d clock mod). The dac has a level 2 modwright mod and it is a super performer.

Regards

Rod

Gordy · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 11:21 am »

Matthew Anker is a well respected cd/sacd moder and speaker designer who's work tends to be much less expensive than some of the others. His 2900 mod runs $700-800... http://www.sacdmods.com/DVD2900.htm

Tube Research Labs has also been very well reviewed of late and is also very reasonable, under $600... http://www.tuberesearchlabs.com/

HTH...
Gordy

Rocket · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 11:50 am »

Hi,

I don't know these modders but the matthew anker modification looks like good value and is within your budget.

Anyone else had dealings with them?

Regards

Rod

ps modding is usually good. I replaced xicon signal path caps with blackgates in my ps audio hca -2 amp and it was Significantly better.

DTB300 · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 02:28 pm »

Quote from: Loftprojection

I am really not satisfied with it's analog audio performance. My Cambridge 540D was giving me a much nicer musical performance for redbook CDs and it was a fraction of the price of the Denon.

Check out Dan Wright at ModWright...Great person to deal with and has all kinds of levels ($$$) for you to choose from as an upgrade path..

http://www.modwright.com/products/index.php?product_id=19

Dan

F-100 · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 03:28 pm »

Quote from: Rocket

Hi,

I don't know these modders but the matthew anker modification looks like good value and is within your budget.

Anyone else had dealings with them?

Hi Rod,
I've done some mods with Matthew Anker in the past . He is a great person to deal with and he did an outstanding work on my Sony SCD-CE775. I'm also on the waiting list for the Denon mod, not due in until June.

eico1 · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 03:29 pm »

The Denon is supposed to be quite good as is, maybe the previous player was colored and you prefer that sound?

Anyway, for $1200 I'd upgrade the amp. If anything, try a Panasonic digital receiver for a few hundred bucks and use the digital input, that would solve both the dac and amp issues(if there are any).

steve

Loftprojection · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 04:32 pm »

Wow, lot's of info.

Listen, I'm very tempted by all these mod sites but let me tell you why I'm also a bit reluctant.

The Denon satisfies me for movies, not that it could not satisfy me more if it was modded but right now it's ok. I had the opportunity to buy a DVD player that would have satisfied my taste for both movies and CD sound, the Arcam DV79. However, I did not go that route because the Arcam was costing me 3 times what I paid for the Denon. I don't mind paying that but with HD-DVD coming soon, I did not want to invest too much into the DVD player. I figured I would be better off putting my money in a dedicated CD player that I would keep forever than spending too much in a DVD that would be disposed of in a few years (I own 500 CDs and 3 DVDs, I just rent DVDs).

If I spend money modding the Denon, it will end up costing me the price of the Arcam which was not what I intended in the first place.

I had a new idea last night. The other day when I demoed the Jolida JD100, I was quite shocked by the smooth and nice sound of the tube output JD100 and even more when I plugged it to one of their tube hybrid amp. So, maybe one thing I could look at is buying myself a Jolida 2 channel hybrid integrated and adding that to my system. Those hybrid amps are quite cheap, if it brings new life to my Denon's performance I might be quite satisfied.

Do you guys know if someone makes a 5 channel pre-amp that is not a HT decoder, that would only act as a volume control in a sense, it would receive a 5.1 analog input, increase or decrease the volume and output a 5.1 analog without modifying the sound in the process? I know most of you will be saying why don't you buy yourself a HT pre-pro. Well to get a good sound for a HT pre-pro you need to spend a fortune because they also have all sorts of bells and whistles.

I'm just coming back to audio/video stuff and there is so much stuff now that it's quite overwhelming. When I bought my old Arcam receiver 7-8 years ago, I think it was more simple, the internet was not there to have my head spinning like now! haha

Thanks again guys, I appreciate the info.

Cheers.

Marbles · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 04:50 pm »

This one is discontinued, but was very popular at one point, maybe you can find one used.

http://www.mindspring.com/~jonfoulkes/Sony%20TAP9000.html

wshuff · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 04:51 pm »

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/mccormack_map1.htm

I don't know the actual street price.

Marbles · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 04:52 pm »

Quote from: wshuff

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/mccormack_map1.htm

I don't know how the actual street price.

This would give an indication of Street used:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1115656968

Loftprojection · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 04:56 pm »

Steve, my previous player was a cheap Cambridge 540D and my old receiver is an Arcam AV50. I don't know if "colored" is the right name but both of these are UK machines just like the Creek Cd player that I like, maybe my taste is biased toward the sound these guys in the UK achieve.

I'm with you on the amp but in the last few weeks, I went to several shops and brought my speakers and receiver with me. Well my old Arcam was equal or nicer to my taste than all that I've listened to (<$1500 receivers from Integra, Marantz, Pioneer, NAD...). I also bought the Panny XR50 and kept it for a week. I have to admit it was close, as detailed or better than my Arcam but colder and not as "musical" so I brought it back.

My main problem is that I have a taste for sound that is very expensive but my wallet is not big enough to satisfy it! hahaha

******************************
The Denon is supposed to be quite good as is, maybe the previous player was colored and you prefer that sound?

Anyway, for $1200 I'd upgrade the amp. If anything, try a Panasonic digital receiver for a few hundred bucks and use the digital input, that would solve both the dac and amp issues(if there are any).

Steve.
******************************

Hantra · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 06:36 pm »

Allow me to introduce my new patented 12 step process for curing ghey digital:

1. Call Scott Nixon
2. Discuss what you want from digital
3. Paypal him some money
4. Call your local Stereovox dealer and order the HDXV digital cable
5. Sit back and relax
6. Have some beers
7. Listen for a while to your ghey digital
8. Go see some live music
9. Get the door. It's not Domino's it's the US Postal Service
10. Hook the DAC and the Stereovox to your current ghey digital
11. Enjoy your new and improved blissfully analog sound and try to recall the live music experience you heard for comparison
12. Thank Nixon on this forum for showing you the light and making your rig sound like real music

Spend the extra $500 or so on some Au24. . .

Talk amongst yaselves. . .

maxwalrath · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Mar 2005, 06:48 pm »

Loft, I would also recommend some sort of modification route for your front end. I'm still trying to figure out where to go next with my source, but I'm using a modwright technics dvdA-10 that is now pretty old, and it trounced all over a Sony dvp-9000 and an ah njoe tjoeb.

I had a hybrid jolida amp for a while and was very happy with it, but I think the digital amps are a much, much better value than anything else I've tried.

Loftprojection · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Mar 2005, 03:23 am »

Hantra, who is this Scott Nixon? If I'm not too idiot and understand your 12 steps properly, Scott makes external DACs? (please don't laugh at me, yes I'm a bit retard with audio stuff!) Does he have an internet site with some info?

maxwalrath, I'm going to go audition the Jolida hybrid again this week. This time I'll bring my speakers and my Arcam receiver to compare properly.

Thanks guys for all this interesting feedback.

Hantra · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Mar 2005, 04:33 am »

Quote from: Loftprojection

Hantra, who is this Scott Nixon? If I'm not too idiot and understand your 12 steps properly, Scott makes external DACs? (please don't laugh at me, yes I'm a bit retard with audio stuff!) Does he have an internet site with some info?

maxwalrath, I'm going to go audition the Jolida hybrid again this week. This time I'll bring my speakers and my Arcam receiver to compare properly.

Thanks guys for all this interesting feedback.

Loft:

Scott makes a superb non-oversampling DAC that is the best I've heard south of about $6,500.

His site is www.scott-nixon.com

I've got another one on order myself!!!

Here's a review: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/nixon/tubedac.html

L8r,

B

JLM · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Mar 2005, 11:51 am »

Loft,

Depending on your budget another very promising DAC is the Ack Industries Ack dAck! v.2. It's $800 and addressed most every concern with the v.1 s that went head to head with the Scott Nixon stuff. Scott offers tube based DACs or battery powered solid state options (like the dAck!). Reportedly the battery powered Scott Nixon is better than the tube based, but again like the dAck! limits you to a 5 hour session and you must remember to switch it back to charge mode.

I bought the dAck! v.2 6 weeks ago and it's finally broken in. Mid/high definition to die for, deep/musical bass, images are extremely solid/3-dimensional. It turned my 7 year old Rotel into a high class tube amp, but maintains its bass control. A very well built product. I'm using it with a stock Sony DVP-S700 (modding it is supposed to improve it radically, but the sound is so good now I'm in no hurry).

I've not heard any Scott Nixon product, but they have a DIY favor about them (not a slam, just a heads up).

http://www.ack-industries.com/