Stream-9 digital output question

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Larsf333

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Stream-9 digital output question
« on: 5 Jul 2021, 10:52 pm »
I am right now testing the stream-9 in my setup with a schiit yggdrasil dac, amg/pra and amg/sta.
It works fine and sounds good, but I have encountered a strange problem. The yggdrasil dac has an indicator, that lights up, when the input signal does not provide a good center frequency, or jitter is too high.

When stream-9 is selected as input, this indicator goes on, indicating a problem with the digital signal. This is strange, as the stream-9 is specified having very low jitter. The yggdrasil manual also calls this indicator ‘buy better gear’, as it should only come on, when the digital signal is poor. No other digital sources in my setup as cd player and tv causes this behaviour.

I have tried balanced and unbalanced digital connections, as well as optical, all with the same result.
I have also tried the sampling rate converter, and that does not help, in all supported cases the indicator is set.

I wonder what causes this strange behaviour, of course there may be a defect in the stream-9, or it provides a digital signal that confuses the dac?

rustydoglim

Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #1 on: 7 Jul 2021, 04:33 pm »
Or the yggdrasil dac detection is useless.
I mean it is not really detecting noise.  To find out what's going on, we would have to test your yggdrasil dac at our lab.
Does your TV output sounds better than Stream-9 ? If listening test tells you otherwise, then something is wrong with the detection.

Larsf333

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Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #2 on: 10 Jul 2021, 09:50 am »
Of course it would be a good thing to test the yggdrasil dac in the lab, but as I live in Denmark, it is not realistic.
But it is annoying not to know what causes this behaviour.
As the stream-9 also has digital inputs, I tried to connect the optical cable  from the sony tv to the stream-9 and selecting the optical input, and listen to tv via stream-9, yggdrasil dac and the amg amplifiers. The buy better gear led is still on in this case, but the resulting sound seems to be the same, as when the tv was connected directly to the dac.

As the yggdrasil dac and the stream-9 both are here for being tried out, I might want to drop both of them and try another solution.

I have read here on the audiocircle pages, that nuprime has developed a dac in the amg series, that should be ready to ship in this month. However, on the nuprime web site, the nuprime amg dac is not (yet?) described.

Could you provide more information about the amg dac, does it include streaming, and when it will be available in Europe?

As I am very satisfied wih the amg amplifier set, an amg dac could be the right solution.

rustydoglim

Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #3 on: 17 Jul 2021, 11:40 am »
The AMG DAC (shipping date not confirm yet, probably September) doesn't offer streaming. Mixing streaming and DAC in a single box is not the purist solution for the AMG or Evolution series.
There is a Stream Mini that can be connected to the back of AMG DAC (or other Nuprime models that have the Digital Port).

Our own test (measurement and listening), confirmed by others, Stream-9 sound quality is at or above the level of CDT-10 when compare with the same music.

Larsf333

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Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #4 on: 18 Jul 2021, 07:57 am »
Thank you for the reply.
I will wait and see if the upcomimg amg dac will be the right solution for me.
It would be nice, if you could put up a description and the expected ship date of the amg dac on your website, so it is possible to see the specifications, as it is nearly ready to ship, the design and data probably is available?

rustydoglim

Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #5 on: 20 Jul 2021, 09:07 am »
Sorry, I saw the AMG DAC sample being demo at a trade show around May, so I thought it would be shipping in August or September.  But I just learned that since May, AMG DAC has been redesigned (because we have lofty goal for this flagship product in the AMG series). Feature wise, AMG DAC is not much difference from other DACs (the inputs and outputs) but it is all about getting the sound just right, for a reference class DAC. 
It is now scheduled for shipping in November.  We need to "get it right" (like the DAC-10) so that we don't have to introduce another revision for many years.

Larsf333

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Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #6 on: 20 Jul 2021, 05:38 pm »
Thank you for the update. It sounds promising, and probably worth waiting for, as the sound and performance of the amg pra/sta amplifiers is very satisfying. And I assume that the new dac will be a good companion for them.

giordy60

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Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #7 on: 28 Jul 2021, 03:15 pm »

There is a Stream Mini that can be connected to the back of AMG DAC (or other Nuprime models that have the Digital Port).



hi Jason
what is the stream mini?

rustydoglim

Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #8 on: 28 Jul 2021, 03:47 pm »
Stream Mini is a "strip-down" version of Stream-9, with some features removed too.
Stream-9 has built-in low noise linear power supply and the circuit is designed for ultimate performance.
Stream Mini relies on external 5V PSU (it can be connected directly to Nuprime Digital Port for power and SPDIF signal) and retains 24/192kHz streaming with I2S, optical and coaxial outputs in addition to digital port. It only support BT 4.2, not BT aptX-HD in Stream-9.  Stream Mini only support 2.4GHz WiFi, where Stream-9 has dual band.

The biggest advantage of Stream Mini is the price of $259 and can upgrade existing products such as IDA-8, DAC*.  It doesn't have analog output, or any digital/analog input, so it is not a general purpose streamer that can be used with active speaker (that's the job of WR-1).
If you have a good DAC, and doesn't need Stream-9, then stream mini gives your old DAC a new life, easily out performs many streamer out there.

Stream Mini shipping near end of August.

giordy60

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Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #9 on: 28 Jul 2021, 04:20 pm »


The biggest advantage of Stream Mini is the price of $259 and can upgrade existing products such as IDA-8, DAC*.  It doesn't have analog output, or any digital/analog input, so it is not a general purpose streamer that can be used with active speaker (that's the job of WR-1).
If you have a good DAC, and doesn't need Stream-9, then stream mini gives your old DAC a new life, easily out performs many streamer out there.

Stream Mini shipping near end of August.

Great news
Thanks Jason  Wink2

pewe

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Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #10 on: 3 Aug 2021, 04:54 pm »
If you only use the Stream Mini or the WR-1 for Spotify-streaming which device has the best sound quality? And, will the Stream Mini reach Europe, Sweden, also late august?
« Last Edit: 4 Aug 2021, 08:57 am by pewe »

giordy60

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Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #11 on: 8 Aug 2021, 01:37 pm »
a question Jason
the stream mini control app is the same as that of the WR-1 ?
and (I assume) you can manage Qobuz-tidal- etc.etc.

giordy60

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Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #12 on: 8 Aug 2021, 01:52 pm »
I have now seen the specifications on the site

https://nuprimeaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/Stream-Mini-Manual.pdf

 :duh:

 :icon_lol:

rustydoglim

Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #13 on: 9 Aug 2021, 01:20 pm »
If you only use the Stream Mini or the WR-1 for Spotify-streaming which device has the best sound quality? And, will the Stream Mini reach Europe, Sweden, also late august?

Stream Mini and WR-1 can't be compare side-by-side because WR-1 has a DAC with analog output.  Stream Mini only has digital outputs and is designed to connect to Nuprime's digital port (for IDA-8, DAC-9*) or use with other DACs.
Stream Mini is shipping 3rd week of August, so I think it will show up in Europe first week of September.

dburna

Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #14 on: 9 Sep 2021, 07:59 pm »
Rusty, I am hoping to piggyback on this semi-dormant thread rather than start a new one. I have a couple basic questions on the Stream-9:

1. Does the volume control affect all the digital output levels? If so, is there any way to bypass the volume control?
2. Are all digital outputs 'live' at the same time? In other words, can you use the Stream-9 to power two separate music streams at the same time? An example would be using the coax out.to drive one system and the optical out simultaneously to drive another.

Thanks, -dGB

rustydoglim

Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #15 on: 12 Sep 2021, 09:15 pm »
All the digital outputs are live at the same time.
There is no point of bypassing the digital volume. If you are thinking that somehow you will get a better volume because of bypassing, that concept doesn't work in the digital domain and certainly not for streaming where you control the volume from the source/app.

Meicheng

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Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #16 on: 13 Sep 2021, 01:16 am »
Jason, with the chip shortage, when do you expect to release the Stream 9?

John Casler

Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #17 on: 13 Sep 2021, 02:43 am »
Jason, with the chip shortage, when do you expect to release the Stream 9?

Stream 9 has been shipping.  I already have a couple in the field. 

That said, I am not sure of the supply.

dburna

Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #18 on: 15 Sep 2021, 03:59 pm »
All the digital outputs are live at the same time.
There is no point of bypassing the digital volume. If you are thinking that somehow you will get a better volume because of bypassing, that concept doesn't work in the digital domain and certainly not for streaming where you control the volume from the source/app.

Thank you, Rusty. No, I am not looking to bypass the volume control. In fact, that is one of the chief advantages of the Stream 9 vs. many other streamers that don't have a volume control. I was merely trying to understand how the Stream 9 works and what it does.

I was planning to connect the digital out (volume-controlled) of a streamer directly to a subwoofer which has no easily accessible volume control. I'm not a fan of using an app for controlling volume vs. a remote. While most folks consider app-control quite convenient, it is less friendly for my other technology-challenged family members. A streamer with manual (or handheld remote) volume-controlled digital outs is just the ticket for me. Thanks.

-dGB

giordy60

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Re: Stream-9 digital output question
« Reply #19 on: 22 Sep 2021, 04:34 pm »
Hi Jason
I saw that the stream-mini has no network input ....
is there a particular reason?