[Tyson]

No way I would support Elon Musk. No E-car here.

Don P

Pretty much every car manufacturer has fully electric vehicles now.  I mean, no one is saying you have to get a BEV, you can drive whatever you want.  But if your reason for not buying an EV is 'Elon bad', then maybe take a look a something that Ford is offering.  Or VW, or Volvo, or Porsche, or Audi, etc....

[Ron D]

Undertowogt1 - also located in the Calgary area (just south) and a year ago I was offered the opportunity to drive a Tesla Plaid. First time ever in a Tesla and I'm sure it's something one can get used to over time and maybe not with the caveat I drove it around my little town and a few rural roads for abiut half hour. The 2 things I didn't like about it were the autopilot but that's likely due to me being a control freak and the fact the car didn't coast once you remove your foot from the gas. To me it's akin to driving an electric golf cart that way. I didn't have the nerve to launch it despite being offered the chance to do so but as the owner said if you're not in one during a launch you'll never know what the car can do so we found a quiet road and he launched it. Scared the crap out of me - seemed like within seconds were over 125MPH, what a rush! A damn site faster than anything I've been in for many decades for sure but didn't garnish the thumbs up I get when tooting around in my 1970 RS Z28 which BTW only gets 10MPG on super high test gas that costs about 8 bucks a gallon. An EV is likely an eventuality should I live long enough but I'm not ready yet..

[jpm]

Congratulations Tyson, it's the automotive equivalent of going from a feature phone to a smart phone! If you're interested in data reports from your Y check out Recurrent Auto (no affiliation etc.) who will pull data and give you reports on how yours is comparing to "the fleet".

https://www.recurrentauto.com/for-owners

[HAL]

Undertowogt1 - also located in the Calgary area (just south) and a year ago I was offered the opportunity to drive a Tesla Plaid. First time ever in a Tesla and I'm sure it's something one can get used to over time and maybe not with the caveat I drove it around my little town and a few rural roads for abiut half hour. The 2 things I didn't like about it were the autopilot but that's likely due to me being a control freak and the fact the car didn't coast once you remove your foot from the gas. To me it's akin to driving an electric golf cart that way. I didn't have the nerve to launch it despite being offered the chance to do so but as the owner said if you're not in one during a launch you'll never know what the car can do so we found a quiet road and he launched it. Scared the crap out of me - seemed like within seconds were over 125MPH, what a rush! A damn site faster than anything I've been in for many decades for sure but didn't garnish the thumbs up I get when tooting around in my 1970 RS Z28 which BTW only gets 10MPG on super high test gas that costs about 8 bucks a gallon. An EV is likely an eventuality should I live long enough but I'm not ready yet..

That is a matter of setting up the S Plaid in Rolling mode.  It acts more like a regular ICE in that case.  My wife uses it when she drives my Model Y as it feels more normal to her.  It was in Hold mode the way you drove it. 

No launch mode in the Model Y LR version.  Just Chill and Standard.  Standard was enough to take it to a road coarse class and have some fun with it.

[WGH]

Congrats Tyson! I'm retired and pay no taxes so can't take advantage of the rebate, that bumps many EV's out of my budget.

I recently found out my neighbor drives a hybrid, her KIA is a stealth hybrid because the EV nameplate on the back fell off, wonder if that says anything about quality control. She loves it and regularly drives from Tucson to DC without any problems. I just looked at KIA prices and the new hybrids are amazingly affordable even without the tax credit.

A good friend has a 2020 Toyota Prius Prime plug-in, we go everywhere in it, that's a nice spaceship too. She recently took it in for the 3-year checkup and was browsing the showroom while the car was being serviced. A salesman said to her that if she bought a 2023 Prius Prime they would give her exactly what she paid in 2020 as a trade-in value. Used car prices are crazy.

Tucson Subaru has 14 of the new all electric Solterra on the lot. List is $45,000 but out the door price will be closer to $50,000 with taxes and fees by the time they get through with you. I just bought an Outback from them, they are very nice sharks but they don't wheel and deal like in the old days.

[Tyson]

Congratulations Tyson, it's the automotive equivalent of going from a feature phone to a smart phone! If you're interested in data reports from your Y check out Recurrent Auto (no affiliation etc.) who will pull data and give you reports on how yours is comparing to "the fleet".

https://www.recurrentauto.com/for-owners

That's very cool, thanks for the link!

Congrats Tyson! I'm retired and pay no taxes so can't take advantage of the rebate, that bumps many EV's out of my budget.

I recently found out my neighbor drives a hybrid, her KIA is a stealth hybrid because the EV nameplate on the back fell off, wonder if that says anything about quality control. She loves it and regularly drives from Tucson to DC without any problems. I just looked at KIA prices and the new hybrids are amazingly affordable even without the tax credit.

A good friend has a 2020 Toyota Prius Prime plug-in, we go everywhere in it, that's a nice spaceship too. She recently took it in for the 3-year checkup and was browsing the showroom while the car was being serviced. A salesman said to her that if she bought a 2023 Prius Prime they would give her exactly what she paid in 2020 as a trade-in value. Used car prices are crazy.

Tucson Subaru has 14 of the new all electric Solterra on the lot. List is $45,000 but out the door price will be closer to $50,000 with taxes and fees by the time they get through with you. I just bought an Outback from them, they are very nice sharks but they don't wheel and deal like in the old days.

Thanks Wayne!  I do think there's a bunch of very inexpensive EV's coming but not there yet.  I know Tesla is coming out with a $25k vehicle in the next couple of years, as is VW.  There's also good Chinese cars that are well built like the MG4.

[undertowogt1]

That is a matter of setting up the S Plaid in Rolling mode.  It acts more like a regular ICE in that case.  My wife uses it when she drives my Model Y as it feels more normal to her.  It was in Hold mode the way you drove it. 

No launch mode in the Model Y LR version.  Just Chill and Standard.  Standard was enough to take it to a road coarse class and have some fun with it.

I actually prefer that My Y does not roll or coast. I rarely even use the brake, I love seeing the regen working. its great. Standard mode acceleration is already ridiculous IMO, still cant get enough of it

[avahifi]

My 2019 Model 3 is four years old now and no repairs or service at all other than a tire rotation done by Tesla mobile service..

It replaced an Audi S6 which was a money sink for service and repairs.

It’s quicker and lots more fun to drive. Test drive one and you will figure it out.

Frank

[DaveC113]

Elon has tweeted his way out of my business, no way I'd support him.

EVs in general? Buy what you like but please don't pretend it's so much better for the environment, your choice of 2-ton personal conveyance just doesn't matter that much. EVs are the future, but right now the best EV is a bicycle. I have one, it's awesome and replaces my car for quite a lot of local trips. What we need is a shift in lifestyle, driving around 2-ton vehicles on a whim everywhere is what isn't sustainable. I look forward to a time in the future where both energy production as well as battery tech is advanced enough to actually meet the fantasies the average EV owner has about their current cars.

Performance? No. My friend owns a M3 Performance and besides it's one party trick, it's ability to accelerate quickly from a stop, it's pretty bad. It weighs a ton and handles like crap. My friend is looking into a whole new suspension for it. Another friend has a Model S with the air suspension, it's better but even larger and heavier. Nice cars overall, but the thoughts that EVs are so much better to drive is generally put out there by people who have never driven a car near it's limits and have no real experience, have never driven a car on track. Here's a Taycan's results at a recent autox race, 19th out of 73. Not bad, but I beat him by 2.5s in my Chevy, lol (5th place). No Tesla is going to beat the Taycan either.

[CurtisIIX]

EVs in general? Buy what you like but please don't pretend it's so much better for the environment, your choice of 2-ton personal conveyance just doesn't matter that much. EVs are the future, but right now the best EV is a bicycle. I have one, it's awesome and replaces my car for quite a lot of local trips. What we need is a shift in lifestyle, driving around 2-ton vehicles on a whim everywhere is what isn't sustainable. I look forward to a time in the future where both energy production as well as battery tech is advanced enough to actually meet the fantasies the average EV owner has about their current cars.

It's still quite a bit better for the environment, so EVs shouldn't be dismissed quite so quickly.

"Even if the grid were entirely fueled by coal, 31% less energy would be needed to charge EVs than to fuel gasoline cars. If EVs were charged by natural gas, the total energy demand for highway transportation would fall by nearly half. Add in hydropower or other renewables, and the result gets even better, saving up to three-fourths of the energy currently used by gasoline-powered vehicles," according to Yale Climate Connections

Your point is still valid. A shift in lifestyle could easily compete with these numbers. Let's say you are now working in a hybrid setup (3 days office / 2 days WFH) and you reduce your outings or bike for local trips, it probably competes with the EV with natural gas electricity generation result (i.e. 50% less total energy). I'm living this scenario, so while I have been looking at the EV offerings recently, I haven't run out to purchase one. 

Also, given that the EVs are non-point source polluters, as the energy production become cleaner in the future, the entire fleet of EVs on the road become better for the environment. 

[HAL]

Well, I took my Model Y Long Range to a road track class.  This is the grocery getter of the line.

Basic specs are 0-60mph 4.8 seconds.   384HP and 420FtLB torque at 0 rpm.  I am a torque junkie!

I had no problem keeping up the with Porches and other cars on the track with AWD. 

I took a friend that builds race cars for an acceleration trial.  His quote was "My Racecar will not do that".

It was fun to accelerate with full throttle from the corner leading into the straightaway that is 0.51mi long and having to slow down from 117mph as I caught up to the rest of the group that had a big head start.  My friends race team was watching and all they said was I was flying out of the corner.  One gear, GO!

Have fun with your car.  I know I am with mine! 

[Sparky14]

I loved my test drive of the Y and 3, was ready to buy one until I realized how much San Diego Gas & Electric charges for electricity. We live near the coast, so we use AC and Heat maybe one week per year - so our electricity bill is always around $150.  But the lowest SDGE rate of $0.52 / kWh makes a Tesla fuel cost about the same as a 30 mpg car. Had to pass on that.

[HAL]

Yes, but when you consider that there is almost no maintenance on the vehicle compared to an ICE, that usually changes the situation.

Tired of spending hours and a lot of money on an ICE vehicle.  Still have to maintain my wife's Honda CR-V that gets around 33mpg.  At least it is down to one at this point.

Also installed a Tesla Solar Roof when ours needed replacement.  No more electric or gas bills for the house and the Model Y!   

[Tyson]

EVs in general? Buy what you like but please don't pretend it's so much better for the environment, your choice of 2-ton personal conveyance just doesn't matter that much. EVs are the future, but right now the best EV is a bicycle. I have one, it's awesome and replaces my car for quite a lot of local trips. What we need is a shift in lifestyle, driving around 2-ton vehicles on a whim everywhere is what isn't sustainable. I look forward to a time in the future where both energy production as well as battery tech is advanced enough to actually meet the fantasies the average EV owner has about their current cars.

I agree with you that people should use their cars less, period.  Personally I work from home 100% of the time, I live in a highly walkable neighborhood with most of the things I need within walking distance.  I have an electric bike for the medium range stuff.  I feel like this is a good approach to getting away from 'car-culture'. 

I had an Acura MDX that I used for longer distance needs like taking my daughter to school or heading in to the mountains for some R&R.  But that got smashed up in an accident a month ago.  So I needed to buy a new car.  It's either another ICE car or a BEV.  After incentives, I was able to pick up the Model Y for $39.5k (long range, AWD version).  Looking at ICE cars, there was NOTHING even close to the Model Y in that price range. 

Also, re: charging EV's from the grid, it might be 'dirty' in some places if they use mainly coal or gas.  But here in CO they've already built out a TON of new solar/wind in the past few years.  So much, that they offer the option for you to select where your energy to your house comes from.  Of course I picked 100% solar/wind as soon as it was available.  So, in fact, I will be charging my Model Y with 100% clean energy. 

[jtwrace]

So, in fact, I will be charging my Model Y with 100% clean energy.

Clearly you don't know how much gas/oil it actually takes to produce "clean energy".  EVERY single product manufactured requires gas/oil even your batteries, solar panels, wires etc.  Everything.  The worst part, what has been done on the recycling end of these products after 10 years.  Very little.  Ask yourself, how many billions of plastic bottles were buried into the earth before realizing that they could be recycled. 


There's waaaayyyyy more to it then what typically meets the eye.   

[Theronbo]

Actually, plastics can be recycled about as efficiently as I can win the lottery.

 Mathematically, it can make sense to purchase a ticket… when the payout exceeds the pay in… except 10,000 years would pass b4 you’re expected to win.

You can recycle… but by the oil companies own admission… all the advertising… was simply to make consumers feel better about their choice of plastic consumption. Plastics in the recycling bin end out who knows where… was China till they banned the import of garbage.

These nonsense analogies “you use fossil fuels” lead to a dead end.

We’re clever, we’ll figure out better methods… if we try.

ICE vehicles are just stupid on the face of it  … the things have a RADIATOR! are you frik’n kidding me?
A device to dissipate wasted heat…. Comical … same with their brakes… used to use asbestos for brake pads… WTF!  Meanwhile, EVs use regenerative braking.

Defending ICE vehicles is an exercise in Silliness… 

[Tyson]

Clearly you don't know how much gas/oil it actually takes to produce "clean energy".  EVERY single product manufactured requires gas/oil even your batteries, solar panels, wires etc.  Everything.  The worst part, what has been done on the recycling end of these products after 10 years.  Very little.  Ask yourself, how many billions of plastic bottles were buried into the earth before realizing that they could be recycled. 


There's waaaayyyyy more to it then what typically meets the eye.   

I do know, actually.  What you are referring to is called “well to wheel” and EV’s are already less than half an ICE car.  And that will only improve as more and more of the grid moves to renewables.  Next up after passenger cars is to go after trucking (long and short haul) and then finally after the mining equipment itself.  Once that is done, all the concerns you raise will be dealt with.

As for recycling EV batteries, at least with the modern batteries, they are getting very often 500k miles before losing enough range that they might need to be replaced.  Of course at 500k miles the car itself is end of life.  At this point I’ve seen 2 paths for them.  Some are repurposed to become home energy storage devices, or they get recycled because 100% of the battery materials can be recycled.  Check out the company Redwood Materials, they are doing this and are growing pretty rapidly.

Plus, I’m not a Luddite.  I am not against mining stuff at all.  Quite the opposite in fact.

[VinceT]

is to go after trucking (long and short haul) and then finally after the mining equipment itself.  Once that is done, all the concerns you raise will be dealt with.

The tech and cost is quite far off and not practical for real life applications for transportation and mining unless you are talking about local P&D light and medium duty trucking or underground mining. For heavy haul transport and and large scale mining it has far to go and the expense is not practical as of now. Maybe 30 years will be a different story, but we may be dealing with a whole different energy source by then.

[Tyson]

The tech and cost is quite far off and not practical for real life applications for transportation and mining unless you are talking about local P&D light and medium duty trucking or underground mining. For heavy haul transport and and large scale mining it has far to go and the expense is not practical as of now. Maybe 30 years will be a different story, but we may be dealing with a whole different energy source by then.

Maybe the future is not so far off, after all - https://thedriven.io/2023/06/23/bhp-says-battery-electric-cheaper-than-hydrogen-as-it-dumps-diesel-for-haul-trucks/

[VinceT]

Maybe the future is not so far off, after all - https://thedriven.io/2023/06/23/bhp-says-battery-electric-cheaper-than-hydrogen-as-it-dumps-diesel-for-haul-trucks/

“There are still a lot of unknowns in our future concept of operations, that we need to consider. How we plan our mines, how we charge our equipment, how we manage power demand and the skills we will need as part of this transition"

This is in its conceptual stage

I know for example just to charge a small fleet of 10 EV semi trucks, you basically need your own electric substation. They would have to build a plant from solar and wind just to charge those batteries for that one mine operation. And the issue is with current technology one charge will not get a mine truck through a whole shift at the mine. So these concepts are still pretty far off. Not saying it cannot be done, but I don't think the diesel will be going away any time soon.