Midrange help. Domes vs. cones?

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Norman Tracy

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Re: Midrange help. Domes vs. cones?
« Reply #40 on: 8 Feb 2021, 10:00 pm »
Letitroll98 asked “what would you think about the Allison dome midrange used in Roy's model One through Three speakers?” Cannot should not comment as I do not recall ever hearing an Allison speaker, perhaps no Midwest USA dealers. I do recall uniformly excellent reviews, admiring Roy Allison’s bass interaction work leading to placing woofers at floor level to eliminate the node caused by woofer center distance some distance above the floor.

Regarding the midrange dome vs. cone discussions on this thread how about a compromise of just use both?  :dunno: :shake: Seriously while we’ve been having this discussion my Instagram feed; the AI of which knows I like classic Hi-Fi, fed me a picture of the JBL XPL-200A a 4-way featuring tweeter – dome midrange – cone lower mid – and 12” (because JBL) woofer. I fancy myself a JBL aficionado and this model is a new one on me. It’s interesting how many high-end JBLs went unnoticed outside the Stereophile/Absolute Sound bubble and noise of the cheap stuff JBL USA pushed to N. American market after 1980s. Of course this expertise in 4-ways at JBL flows straight out of their big 4000 series studio monitors where the cone midrange helps transition off those 12”, or 15”, or dual-15”* woofers.      *Somebody cue up some Bob Marley.



https://www.audiophilenirvana.com/audiophile-equipment-reviews/jbl-xpl-200a-holy-grail/

dB Cooper

Re: Midrange help. Domes vs. cones?
« Reply #41 on: 9 Feb 2021, 03:14 am »
Letitroll98 asked “what would you think about the Allison dome midrange used in Roy's model One through Three speakers?” Cannot should not comment as I do not recall ever hearing an Allison speaker, perhaps no Midwest USA dealers. I do recall uniformly excellent reviews, admiring Roy Allison’s bass interaction work leading to placing woofers at floor level to eliminate the node caused by woofer center distance some distance above the floor.


FWIW not all Allisons had the woofers at floor level. My Fours (bookshelf) and CD-8's (floorstanders) had the woofers on the top of the cabinet. It was an intricate 'matrix' of driver layout, crossover points, and positioning (they all were designed to be against the wall) that made it work. I sold them and still regret it. BTW the current Larsen speakers are a very different approach to solving the same problems but share the tactic of positioning close to the wall.

Letitroll98

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Re: Midrange help. Domes vs. cones?
« Reply #42 on: 9 Feb 2021, 11:22 pm »
I really liked the Fours.  I went to Mitchell Letwin's store in Pittsburgh to hear something and he had Threes and Fours in my price range.  I took the Fours home for audition, came back and bought the Threes.  The Fours sounded lovely, but that aforementioned midrange driver was the difference.  And yes, they were equalized shelving down 9db in the bass so they could sit in the corner and deliver nearly perfect in room frequency response in the bass.  I believe it was 3db down with the Fours as they were to be placed on the wall.  I think Roy had sold the company before the CD line came out, but don't quote me.

T_love16

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Re: Midrange help. Domes vs. cones?
« Reply #43 on: 23 Feb 2021, 12:36 pm »
The main thing that concerns me is the driver selection and x-over design required for the woofer to midrange... Ideally I want a 10-12" driver that extends down to 30-40Hz, but also needs to be capable of reaching up to 400-500Hz, cleanly for a dome mid? (impossible?).
Above all, I want drivers that require the least amount of parts. Any suggestions or direction here would be appreciated.

Looking at some of the specs on the Volt 753, it's claimed to have an fs of 400hz which would mean you should be crossing at least 1.5 times higher than that if my memory is correct, so closer to 1000-1200. i'd also look at the Bliesma's for the upper range, I've been playing with the 34B here for a bit and it's simply outstanding!! I'd also ponder 2-Purifi's on the lower end as they would allow you to keep the baffle width smaller but still easily hit the 30-35hz lower range, in fact I have a pair here that i'm going to put in my box today to see how they sound.

So many drivers, so little time!!

Yesss Dom!! I've been looking at the Bliesma's... First impressions I'm blown away. I've ordered a couple to measure and I'll post the results in this system. Thanks so much for the pointer.

Don

T_love16

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Re: Midrange help. Domes vs. cones?
« Reply #44 on: 23 Feb 2021, 12:41 pm »
If you want to invest full resources into a true three way project, I don’t think you will best the ScanSpeak 4” Illuminator mid. The crossover, tweeter selection and baffle design will take some effort for best results. But I don’t think you will find a better sounding mid at any price.

Enjoy the process.  :thumb:

I had a few trusted people say the same thing...  I've received two of these (the 4” Illuminator) yesterday!! The hard work starts now... I'll let you know how it goes! thanks man :)

T_love16

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Re: Midrange help. Domes vs. cones?
« Reply #45 on: 23 Feb 2021, 12:45 pm »
I thought you could get a Yamaha piano for $15K.... Guess not. Among the brands that audiophiles 'love to hate', I always thought Yamaha had decent sound and a nice design aesthetic.

They're beautiful, and have a 'sound', no doubt about that! I just wish I could justify that price.

T_love16

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Re: Midrange help. Domes vs. cones?
« Reply #46 on: 23 Feb 2021, 12:51 pm »
Looking at some of the specs on the Volt 753, it's claimed to have an fs of 400hz which would mean you should be crossing at least 1.5 times higher than that if my memory is correct, so closer to 1000-1200. i'd also look at the Bliesma's for the upper range, I've been playing with the 34B here for a bit and it's simply outstanding!! I'd also ponder 2-Purifi's on the lower end as they would allow you to keep the baffle width smaller but still easily hit the 30-35hz lower range, in fact I have a pair here that i'm going to put in my box today to see how they sound.

So many drivers, so little time!!

Don

Hah! realisation here Dom... I'm still deciphering how to post properly! (apologies)
How did you go with the Purifi's?

T_love16

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Re: Midrange help. Domes vs. cones?
« Reply #47 on: 23 Feb 2021, 12:55 pm »


FWIW not all Allisons had the woofers at floor level. My Fours (bookshelf) and CD-8's (floorstanders) had the woofers on the top of the cabinet. It was an intricate 'matrix' of driver layout, crossover points, and positioning (they all were designed to be against the wall) that made it work. I sold them and still regret it. BTW the current Larsen speakers are a very different approach to solving the same problems but share the tactic of positioning close to the wall.

Have heard any of the Larsen systems?

T_love16

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  • Posts: 21
Re: Midrange help. Domes vs. cones?
« Reply #48 on: 23 Feb 2021, 01:07 pm »
Seriously while we’ve been having this discussion my Instagram feed; the AI of which knows I like classic Hi-Fi, fed me a picture of the JBL XPL-200A a 4-way featuring tweeter – dome midrange – cone lower mid – and 12” (because JBL) woofer. I fancy myself a JBL aficionado and this model is a new one on me.

Hahaha. Every second Tuesday, when I decide to explore the ol' Instagram algorithm or Pinterest suggested's, it makes me forever humbled. There are thousands of speaker systems that I have absolutely zero clues about. I love it.