Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7

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Kgreen

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Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« on: 19 Jan 2021, 11:16 pm »
Hello...

Tube fellow here, low power...35-45W range. Has anyone compared the midrange delivery of the original fat bottle 6CA7 to the later design EL34/6CA7 in a self-biasing integrated amp? If so, I would like to hear your opinion.

Cheers...kg

FullRangeMan

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #1 on: 19 Jan 2021, 11:20 pm »
Welcome
I will move this topic to the Tubeophile Circle.

Tom Bombadil

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #2 on: 20 Jan 2021, 01:20 am »
I own several vintage Sylvania fat bottle 6CA7 and a pair of new production EH 6CA7.  I run them in a self-biasing single-ended amp.

In my setup I much prefer the vintage tubes, I should add that this is not always the case as I like several new production tubes.  The Sylvania produce a very rich sound, with great vocals, good (not great) high frequency details and a bit of warmth on the bass with good detail.  Overall detail & definition is okay but not great, same for how big of a soundstage they create.  Those slight shortcomings aside, they produce very enjoyable music.  Natural sounding vocals, smooth highs, and warmish bass. 

The EH were a bit less in almost every regard in my system.  The bass was even warmer, too much so to my ears.  Vocals and highs were smooth and listenable but the overall sound didn't draw me into the music.  I can put in the EH and listen to my system casually for hours but never get drawn into the music.  I consider them good for playing music as I go about my chores or when I'm online.  Saving my better tubes for more critical listening. 

I have read opinions from people who love the EH and have not found them overly tubby.  People who have selected them as their "tube of choice" for all listening.   Different rooms, different equipment, different preferences. 

jjss49

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #3 on: 20 Jan 2021, 03:49 am »
kg

your question is pretty much meaningless without context

what is your amp?  how is it biased?  into what speakers?

important things to know when comes to speaking about what different el34/6ca7s sound like, be they old or new...

not being difficult, just bein' real...

FullRangeMan

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #4 on: 20 Jan 2021, 04:22 am »
My crystal ball say this self-biasing may be Decware Rachel.

Kgreen

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #5 on: 20 Jan 2021, 09:05 pm »
I appreciate the replies...

Two amps...

 - Prima Luna Prologue Four power amp with Magnaplanar .7 speakers

 - Cary SLI-80 integrated amp with Altec Lansing Segovia speakers...4 Ohm

Both amps self-bias

The EL34/6CA7 tubes would be those manufactured a few years after Sylvania introduced the 6CA7 fat. Different construction?

FullRangeMan

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #6 on: 20 Jan 2021, 10:02 pm »
I appreciate the replies...

Two amps...

 - Prima Luna Prologue Four power amp with Magnaplanar .7 speakers

 - Cary SLI-80 integrated amp with Altec Lansing Segovia speakers...4 Ohm

Both amps self-bias

The EL34/6CA7 tubes would be those manufactured a few years after Sylvania introduced the 6CA7 fat. Different construction?
Seems the PL use his famous Adaptative Auto bias.  Usually Decware amps use Self Adjusting Bias.

rotarius

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #7 on: 21 Jan 2021, 01:45 am »
EH 6ca7 like or dislike will depend on your system.  A pretty good tube  but has a dry midrange and is the opposite of say a Shuguang el34.  I put them in a PL4 and was my favorite tube in that amp because it increased bass extension and definition.  Something I thought the Primaluna needed help with possibly due to the highish output impedance of PL amps.

Kgreen

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #8 on: 21 Jan 2021, 02:47 am »

The EH tubes sound "blah" in both of my amps.

Tyson

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #9 on: 21 Jan 2021, 03:42 am »
After a lot of time spent rolling a lot of different tubes, I pretty much avoid any modern production Russian tubes.  The Shuguang and Psvane tubes always sound better to me.  There's a grittiness in the Russian tubes that just irritates me over time. 

FullRangeMan

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #10 on: 21 Jan 2021, 04:12 am »
After a lot of time spent rolling a lot of different tubes, I pretty much avoid any modern production Russian tubes.  The Shuguang and Psvane tubes always sound better to me.  There's a grittiness in the Russian tubes that just irritates me over time.
This would be modern Russian commercial tubes, in this case I could suggest Russian Military tubes from 1960 and 70s where the manufacturing tolerances were 5%.

jjss49

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #11 on: 21 Jan 2021, 07:16 pm »
in my recent experience, the current el34/kt77 tubes from russia (sold under gold lion tung-sol or mullard brands - not the real UK made old ones of course, new sensor corp who controls the russian production plant bought those defunct old brand names and now uses them to brand their current production) sound very nice... warm tone no harshness excellent bass...  in comparison, i feel the china made shuguangs are brighter and thinner sounding

these are not quite as nice as true old stock uk/dutch mullards or gec/genalex ones of course, but the cost of these are now sky high, out of reach or not worth having for many users

my amps running el34's are primaluna hp dialog prem, and linear tube audio zotl40 - on which i base these comments

jjss49

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #12 on: 21 Jan 2021, 07:26 pm »
I appreciate the replies...

Two amps...

 - Prima Luna Prologue Four power amp with Magnaplanar .7 speakers

 - Cary SLI-80 integrated amp with Altec Lansing Segovia speakers...4 Ohm

Both amps self-bias

The EL34/6CA7 tubes would be those manufactured a few years after Sylvania introduced the 6CA7 fat. Different construction?

The Primaluna should have their individual output tube auto-bias circuitry - the Prologue is one of their lower, earlier models, you should double check it has the adaptive autobias feature for each power tube

IIRC the Cary SLI 80 is manually set biasing, for all power tubes via a single setting... thus important to use matched tube sets 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cary-sli-80-bias-help

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/cary-sli-80-bias-help.374934/

Kgreen

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Re: Fat Bottle 6CA7 vs EL34/6CA7
« Reply #13 on: 24 Jan 2021, 04:14 am »

Thank you...I certainly appreciate the information.