Is there an end to upgrading?

woodsyi · « **on:** 8 Mar 2005, 10:22 pm »

I have always had music in my life. I was nurtured with classical and opera music, rebelled and took up rock and roll, discovered jazz and blues, enjoyed world music in travels and now I am back to classical and opera along with all the others. Throughout, my parents or I maintained a midfi upper mass production gear (Adcom, Alison, Dahlquist, Snell, etc) until one fatefull day in November 2003. I went to a soiree at the house of my wife's boss where I encountered B&W signature speakers with Audio Research everything. I was smitten by the quality of sound. Placido Domingo and Frederica von Stade sounded better than in person. Thus I started on my personal Oddyssey to learn, sample and put components together toward my personl audio nirvana. My purpose was to create a system that will sound as good or better than what I would hear from middle of 15th row seat at Kennedy Center Opera House. I have that. I also wanted a versatile system that could shake the house with Def Leppard or Van Halen (DLRdays) when the mood strikes. It does that. I wanted to hear Billie Holiday or Sarah Vaughn as if I am in the same room with them. I got that. So, why is that I feel the need to do more?

WEEZ · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Mar 2005, 10:43 pm »

hell if I know...

just enjoy!

WEEZ

JohnnyLightOn · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Mar 2005, 10:51 pm »

(first response deleted - I took your post totally the wrong way.) You are a gearhead like the rest of us and you have hobby-addiction like the rest of us.

Ulas · « **Reply #3 on:** 8 Mar 2005, 10:51 pm »

Woodsyi, From your description and looking at your system components I would guess you are lacking coherence. Coherence is one of the things that separates live music from HiFi. Live music is a cohesive whole, not a collection of highs, mids, lows, and other oddities that have to individually processed and amplified. I think simpler systems are better at maintaining coherence and delivering a more satisfying musical experience.

jermmd · « **Reply #4 on:** 8 Mar 2005, 10:52 pm »

It's a hobby. There is no end. With the addition of a Maestro Subwoofer, I finally got my system to sound perfect (to my ears). On the one hand, I don't want to alter anything and screw it up. On the other hand, I'm bored and want to tweak some more. I was actually thinking of selling the whole thing and starting again from scratch. It really is a crazy hobby. But, as bad as we are, some people are never satisfied. It's the endless search for perfection. Like the holy grail it's a never ending quest. Ask George (Zybar) to run you through the list of equipment he has gone through in the last few years.

Joe M.

woodsyi · « **Reply #5 on:** 8 Mar 2005, 11:09 pm »

Quote from: Ulas

Woodsyi, From your description and looking at your system components I would guess you are lacking coherence. Coherence is one of the things that separates live music from HiFi. Live music is a cohesive whole, not a collection of highs, mids, lows, and other oddities that have to individually processed and amplified. I think simpler systems are better at maintaining coherence and delivering a more satisfying musical experience.

Can one build a system, regardless of complexity, that will reproduce coherence of a live performance for all types of music? Or can we only get a system to be tuned to a sigle type music (one's favorite) and do the best with other types?

Joules · « **Reply #6 on:** 8 Mar 2005, 11:26 pm »

There are times I feel it can't get better than this ... total nirvana. there are times I think there is no way a reproducer can capture a real performance.
I allway seem to fine some little tweek to help things out (bothe cheap and expensive). A hobby is NEVER finished !!! and mabe that's a good thing

Ulas · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 Mar 2005, 11:32 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi

Can one build a system, regardless of complexity, that will reproduce coherence of a live performance for all types of music?

I don't know about complex systems, but a simple, coherent, and dynamic system will excel with all types of music.

nathanm · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Mar 2005, 11:40 pm »

There IS an end to upgrading! All you have to do is run out of money. Works like a charm.

You could also invite people over who are unfamiliar with these things and if they are duly impressed with the sound and the shiny things then that could be enough of an ego boost for you to hit the "pause" button of changing gear and realize that you do indeed own some killer shit. I mean, where else can you go from here? It could even be said that you have gone so far as to place your amplifiers upon a pedestal.

JLM · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Mar 2005, 11:42 pm »

There's no perfect (in every way) component or system, thats why folks continue to "upgrade" (using the term loosely). But if you're happy (and with your list of equipment I can see why you would be) I'd stick with it.

A couple of suggestions:

Don't know what shape your room is in, and the room is the second or third most important component.

Buy more music if you have the urge to spend.

8thnerve · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Mar 2005, 11:49 pm »

I'm not saying buy them from me, buy them from anyone. But you can put a $200,000 system in a room without acoustic treatment and it will never sound right, period. Everyone on this forum who has room treatment will agree, just ask them.

Sorry if I am "breakin the law" but I was waiting for someone to say it...

woodsyi · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 12:04 am »

Well, I did just put these up.

I also stuffed all four ceiling corners with yards of 1 foot thick fiberglass batt. Definitely worth it not only for taming boominess but also clearing up highs and mids!

gongos · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 12:22 am »

Are those garden hoses running to the speakers?

warnerwh · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 12:40 am »

Personally it feels like I keep doing it because I've been doing it so long it's hard to stop the momentum. How many times have I said I'm done I don't know but I'm trying to mean it. With a dedicated and treated room, RM 40's here in a couple of days it seems like I really can't improve, at least not enough to make music more enjoyable, but I could go sideways. Maybe there does need to be an AA for audiophiles. To be perfectly honest my system sounds excellent. Every single person who has heard it including audiophiles has been amazed. As a matter of fact my current system the way it is I find very satisfying.

Regarding Eighth Nerves post, He is spot on. Room acoustics are huge and are easily number 2 of the components most affecting the sound. Well worth the money. As a matter of fact without your system isn't sounding like it should or probably even close. Digital sound processing though may get us there with much treatment.

zachslc · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 01:21 am »

Yes there is. It's called divorce.

eric the red · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 05:26 am »

The answer to your original question is no. You're in the wrong hobby/forum if you think anyone here will answer yes

JLM · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 11:09 am »

Oops, I forgot that was your room, looks like you've got room treatments "covered".

If you've got enough music, please send any money burning a hole in your pocket to the audio and orphans relief fund, in care of me. Your gift, while not being IRS 501C(3) qualified, will help a short balding nearsighted middle aged overweight white guy complete his audio system. At least $0.01 of every $100 is guarenteed to go to orphans. Where can you do better than that?

woodsyi · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 01:34 pm »

I think source music is where I am going to focus next. I still have midwoofer upgrade whenever the parts arrive, installing Bybees on each driver group, upgrading TT powersupply and rewiring 75ohm cable from attic to basement for FM antenna on the agenda. I listened to a 1961 RCA production of Aida conducted by Solti with Price and Vickers last night and just loved the feeling of being right there in the middle of Rome Opera House. So many live opera recordings (especially old) have PITiful orchestral music, but this one is just fabulous. RCA produced this "live" sound for 2 channel and got it right. Now that my system is up to it, I gotta get me more LPs of this quality. Actually I should clean the keepers from 1000+ LP's that I picked up from another AC member Merle last year. He had some great boxed opera sets from the 30's to 60's. I will just make a big batch of cleaner and do it right in the sweet spot!

ctviggen · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 01:47 pm »

The single best improvement to my system (other than my RM40s) has been room treatments. Other stuff pales in comparison to room treatments. Heck, I just put in cryoed outlets, reversed phase of my speakers, and put in cryoed speaker cable, and can barely tell the difference between my system before all those changes (performed at the same time) and after the changes. Installing two Realtraps (and I have 6 now) provided magnitudes of improvement as compared to many of the upgrades I've done.

jcoat007 · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 08:16 pm »

There really is no end to this unless, of course, you run out of $$$$ like nathanm said.

I have two seperate systems and neither one is up and running right now.

Why?????

Let's see.

In one system I am waiting on main speakers, center channel and sub-woofer. I am also waiting on my modified DVD player to be, uhhh, modified.

In my other system, I am waiting on a new amp, mod's to my pre-amp, mod's to my DAC and repairs/mods to my tonearm.

I am going freakin crazy waiting for all this to be done. So what do I do while I have no system to listen to? I think about mod's, upgrades, new equipment etc...etc...etc....

While waiting I have ordered some new power cords, new cryo'd wall outlets, new tubes and I bought a new Powervar unit from e-bay. I am looking at some new room treatments and will probably order them today or tomorrow.

If my stuff dfoesn't come in soon, I will run out of money!!!

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have upgrade-itis!!!!!!!!!!