How much money to achieve the Highest Fidelity?

Tyson · « **Reply #40 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 04:12 pm »

Once you've been around the block a few times in this game, you start to realize there's an upper limit to what's achievable with our current technology. And that 'mid-fi' systems, when set up well, aren't all that far off from "ultra hifi" systems. None of them get you to the point where it sounds completely real. It's not unlike video technology in that respect. Ultra HD 4k (or 8k) look amazing, but it doesn't fool me into thinking these people are actually in my living room. Some get you closer than others but the fact is that there's a ceiling to what can be achieved right now.

rollo · « **Reply #41 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 04:16 pm »

Quote from: Mag on 28 Dec 2020, 08:16 pm

With reviewers posting low cost budget speakers, dac's, amps, pre-amps, etc.. How much money IYO would it take to achieve the Highest level in home audio fidelity?

Assume you have the perfect audio room.

IMO, with a budget system a person could achieve a very good Mid-Fi system. Based on my years of upgrades, the bare minimum I would need to have a comparable sound quality to what I have now I estimate would be in the neighborhood of $21,000 CDN retail price, not including tax.

What do you think?

You did say highest level correct ? About 1 million MBL speakers, Muse digital, Air Force 1 TT, Goldfinger cart, Crystal Cable, Lamm Electronics, Shunyata power conditioning and a bottle of Louie the 14th.

charles

twitch54 · « **Reply #42 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 04:19 pm »

Quote from: toocool4 on 29 Dec 2020, 04:11 pm

It’s funny no one can have an intelligent discussion on a forum without someone turning it into a pissing contest.

now that wasn't very 'cool', nowhere do I see a pissing contest, rather open honest discussion / opinion ..........

toocool4 · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 04:52 pm »

Quote from: twitch54 on 29 Dec 2020, 04:19 pm

now that wasn't very 'cool', nowhere do I see a pissing contest, rather open honest discussion / opinion ..........

You need to re-read some of the comments, I see words like “Snobbery”, “dick measuring contest” ect. how is that a open and honest discussion? Sounds more like insults to me.

mick wolfe · « **Reply #44 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:03 pm »

Quote from: Tyson on 29 Dec 2020, 04:12 pm

Once you've been around the block a few times in this game, you start to realize there's an upper limit to what's achievable with our current technology. And that 'mid-fi' systems, when set up well, aren't all that far off from "ultra hifi" systems. None of them get you to the point where it sounds completely real. It's not unlike video technology in that respect. Ultra HD 4k (or 8k) look amazing, but it doesn't fool me into thinking these people are actually in my living room. Some get you closer than others but the fact is that there's a ceiling to what can be achieved right now.

Well said. A "mid-fi" system set up by someone "whose been around the block" will better a $50K (or more) system set up in the wrong hands. Heard this more than a few times at audio shows. Also, don't overlook the law of diminishing returns. Very much in play at all avenues in this hobby.

S Clark · « **Reply #45 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:05 pm »

TooCool has a point, but most of the discussion has been respectful. But the comment made about "dick measuring contest" is valid, just perhaps a crude way of saying conspicuous consumption and one upsmanship.

grsimmon · « **Reply #46 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:07 pm »

Quote from: Mag on 28 Dec 2020, 08:16 pm

With reviewers posting low cost budget speakers, dac's, amps, pre-amps, etc.. How much money IYO would it take to achieve the Highest level in home audio fidelity?

Assume you have the perfect audio room.

IMO, with a budget system a person could achieve a very good Mid-Fi system. Based on my years of upgrades, the bare minimum I would need to have a comparable sound quality to what I have now I estimate would be in the neighborhood of $21,000 CDN retail price, not including tax.

What do you think?

In my opinion and to respond: to achieve the 'highest fidelity', one has to get away from the basically stalled technology of 97% of loudspeakers, and go with true omnidirectional loudspeakers. I know them all, and only 2 make the cut: Duevel in Germany, and Morrison in Canada. Your estimate was in Canadian dollars, so perhaps you could contact Don Morrison of Morrison Audio in Toronto. The only loudspeaker in the world that is both omni and actively biamplified (and using an amp of your choice). You can then set your budget from there, and yes technology has evolved far enough with the rest of the audio chain, that a completely "high-end" system can be had within that $21k CDN budget. Speakers first, everything else second.

nc42acc · « **Reply #47 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:13 pm »

I am sure most of the commenters on this thread are old enough to know what was available in the mid to late 80s. I am amazed at the level of fidelity and realism available with todays "budget" audio equipment. I have heard some pretty amazing and uber expensive systems and can say I am not lacking anything in my setup. Who cares if someone wants to spend six figures on their system, that is their prerogative. It is sad to see there is much "pride in ownership" in the audiophile community. But who cares if you are happy with what you have. Stay calm and listen to MUSIC!

mick wolfe · « **Reply #48 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:19 pm »

Quote from: nc42acc on 29 Dec 2020, 05:13 pm

I am sure most of the commenters on this thread are old enough to know what was available in the mid to late 80s. I am amazed at the level of fidelity and realism available with todays "budget" audio equipment. I have heard some pretty amazing and uber expensive systems and can say I am not lacking anything in my setup. Who cares if someone wants to spend six figures on their system, that is their prerogative. It is sad to see there is much "pride in ownership" in the audiophile community. But who cares if you are happy with what you have. Stay calm and listen to MUSIC!

That says it all

Folsom · « **Reply #49 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:20 pm »

Depends on the music you want to hear.

Danley labs speaker setup with amps and everything for live music (tubes etc, why not) $300k~
Venue $800k~ (small)
Musician $3k-3m~

toocool4 · « **Reply #50 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:21 pm »

I still don’t get why you guys keep saying “mid-fi setup in the hands of an expert would beat a high end setup in the wrong hands” you can say that about anything. A mid end camera in the hands of an expert would be better than a high end camera in the hands of Joe public.

If you are going to make a comparison it has to be apples to apple, i.e. both systems have all the same perfect conditions. That way the only difference is quality of the gear, now tell me the inferior system is better than the superior one.

toocool4 · « **Reply #51 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:26 pm »

nc42acc I agree with you 100%, too many people worry about what other spend on their system. Me I don’t care what people spend on their systems, I only care about my system and my enjoyment of it.

Stercom · « **Reply #52 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:31 pm »

Quote from: toocool4 on 29 Dec 2020, 05:26 pm

nc42acc I agree with you 100%, too many people worry about what other spend on their system. Me I don’t care what people spend on their systems, I only care about my system and my enjoyment of it.

My comment erased (by me)

twitch54 · « **Reply #53 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:34 pm »

Quote from: Stercom on 29 Dec 2020, 05:31 pm

Then why did you start a thread asking "How much MONEY to achieve the Highest Fidelity?"

to get us excited ?

FWIW Mag started the thread .......

toocool4 · « **Reply #54 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:40 pm »

Quote from: Stercom on 29 Dec 2020, 05:31 pm

Then why did you start a thread asking "How much MONEY to achieve the Highest Fidelity?

You may just want to check the thread starter.

Rusty Jefferson · « **Reply #55 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:41 pm »

As a starting point, I'd need $75k for a pair of David Berning's 845/211 Push-Pull amplifiers. Best amplifiers I've ever heard. That guy's a genius and a magician. I don't know where I'd go from there, but it would be a fun journey.

nc42acc · « **Reply #56 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:48 pm »

Mag I think you are a little high at $21,000 CDN. I am going to throw out between $8,000 and $15,000 USD.

Quote from: Mag on 28 Dec 2020, 08:16 pm

With reviewers posting low cost budget speakers, dac's, amps, pre-amps, etc.. How much money IYO would it take to achieve the Highest level in home audio fidelity?

Assume you have the perfect audio room.

IMO, with a budget system a person could achieve a very good Mid-Fi system. Based on my years of upgrades, the bare minimum I would need to have a comparable sound quality to what I have now I estimate would be in the neighborhood of $21,000 CDN retail price, not including tax.

What do you think?

Tyson · « **Reply #57 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 05:51 pm »

The speaker and the room are the biggest places were fidelity is lost, vs. anywhere else in the audio chain. You should spend the $$ to have a large, dedicated audio room that is designed from the ground up for good sound. Then after that spend the largest part of your budget on speakers. For me, those speakers would be the GR Research Line Force OB planar magnetics with triple servo OB subs.

Once you have those 2 areas nailed, the rest is really just tuning the system to the type of sound you like.

nc42acc · « **Reply #58 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 06:56 pm »

Tyson I agree the room is one of the biggest factors in achieving great sound quality but I don't think the dedicated room is feasible for the majority of the audiophiles. We can arrange and treat the room we do have to get the best possible results.

Quote from: Tyson on 29 Dec 2020, 05:51 pm

The speaker and the room are the biggest places were fidelity is lost, vs. anywhere else in the audio chain. You should spend the $$ to have a large, dedicated audio room that is designed from the ground up for good sound. Then after that spend the largest part of your budget on speakers. For me, those speakers would be the GR Research Line Force OB planar magnetics with triple servo OB subs.

Once you have those 2 areas nailed, the rest is really just tuning the system to the type of sound you like.

decal · « **Reply #59 on:** 29 Dec 2020, 07:08 pm »

$257,932.78 + tax