B60 upgrade path

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mattau

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B60 upgrade path
« on: 4 Oct 2020, 01:47 pm »
Newbie here...  I have a B60R from the late 90's that has been upgraded to SST.  Just starting to think about upgrade path.  I don't think I have ever gone past 50% on the volume knob in my listening and normally stay at around 25-35%.  I listen to CD (Rega Apollo), LPs (Technics SL-DL1 with Ortofon OM10 and Bryston BP1), and occasionally Spotify (Google Chromecast Audio)

Would anything that's not SST (3B, 4B) be an upgrade since I can't use the power anyways?  What would you recommend as my next step if I were to upgrade? 

Thanks in advance for the advice!
Matt

Jozsef

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Re: B60 upgrade path
« Reply #1 on: 5 Oct 2020, 11:02 pm »
You would not want to go to an older generation but always to a newer one. Bryston does not do different performance levels in different price ranges so at any particular time, the amps differ essentially in power output only and the other components in features. The old BDP-1 is not a sonically obsolete digital player and will probably cost very little now. It's slow but that has no effect on sound.

I find that any BDP and BDA combination sounds better than any CD player except the BCD3 so that would be one possible upgrade path. Plus, selecting tracks or CDs from a screen is wonderfully convenient and adds to the experience as compared to fiddling with discs and jewel boxes, although I'm happy to do all that with the BCD3. It's really good.

jjss49

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Re: B60 upgrade path
« Reply #2 on: 6 Oct 2020, 03:23 am »
volume knob position means nada

it has all to do with the input sensitivity from the source

the question is how much power reserve do you have short of clipping on musical peaks - that may happen at just a bit more rotation of the knob

FullRangeMan

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Re: B60 upgrade path
« Reply #3 on: 6 Oct 2020, 03:35 am »
The B60 is a heck of a amp, Its Single  Ended output, not a neglegible feature mainly tô hi sensitivity or full range speakers.

mattau

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Re: B60 upgrade path
« Reply #4 on: 6 Oct 2020, 01:07 pm »
volume knob position means nada

it has all to do with the input sensitivity from the source

the question is how much power reserve do you have short of clipping on musical peaks - that may happen at just a bit more rotation of the knob

I found this about my CD Player, is this what you are referring to?  What does that mean in my situation? 

The Apollo's output impedance was a little higher than usual, at 596 ohms over most of the audio band and rising slightly to 653 ohms at 20Hz, but this should have no subjective consequences, even with amplifiers having a low input impedance.

As for my turntable, I assume the specs from the BP-1 is what's important?  Not sure where I can find that info. 


jjss49

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Re: B60 upgrade path
« Reply #5 on: 6 Oct 2020, 09:24 pm »
mattau

you said this:  "Just starting to think about upgrade path.  I don't think I have ever gone past 50% on the volume knob in my listening and normally stay at around 25-35%."

what i am saying is that the position of the volume control on your amplification is not indicative of how much reserve power you have remaining in your system...   same thing in cars -- some cars you just touch the gas pedal, the car shoots off the line, first 10% gives you most of the power the car has... the rest of the pedal motion all the way to the floor delivers relatively little.  compare this to other cars with conservative throttle mapping gives you 10% of the power at 10% depression of the pedal, and so forth, you follow?

volume controls on hifi systems are like gas pedals, they do not necessarily respond linearly so one cannot read the need to have more less power for the system based on where the position of the volume control sits in normal use

many naim integrated amps are famous for this... from 7 o'clock (off) to 930 or 10 o'clock on the volume control you have ALL the power of the amp... past 10 oclock the amp is maxed out... drives naim users crazy

mattau

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Re: B60 upgrade path
« Reply #6 on: 8 Oct 2020, 02:39 pm »
So it would seem the amp section of my B60 (having been upgraded to SST) can only be improved upon if I were to get a new amp with SST2 or cubed.  What about the preamp section?  Given the age of my B60, I think it has a BP20/BP25 preamp, which based on what's been posted here suggests that it's not too shabby compared to the current BP6. 

So it would appear that the only "upgrade" that might give me bigger bang for my $$ is maybe upgrading the needle of my turntable from the OM10 to say OM20?  Anyone care to comment if that's good value?  I have no plans to change speakers or CD player at this time. 

Lancelot

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Re: B60 upgrade path
« Reply #7 on: 8 Oct 2020, 03:12 pm »
 I have had the B60, the BP20 and the 3B ST as well as the 3B SST. Except for the amount of power available, I actually preferred the B60.

 Generally maximum volume  for many pre amps  is at  the 2:00 0'clock position.  Unless you are listening at high volumes to material with a wide dynamic range in a large room you should be fine.

GrooveControl

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Re: B60 upgrade path
« Reply #8 on: 9 Oct 2020, 01:24 am »
Like Lancelot, I too really like the B60.  I recently went from having two 3Bs and a B60, to having two B60s a 3B.  You will probably be disappointed in the improvement you will achieve by throwing more cash into amplification.  The B60 was and still is that good.

If you don't want to change your speakers, what about positioning and room treatments? They are usually the first thing to consider. 

You should be able to improve your Spotify experience with a decent digital streamer and DAC.  I use Volumio on RPI4 and an SMSL SU-8 DAC. Not too expensive and they get you 99% of the way there. 

One more thought.  If you're not allergic to EQ, the miniDSP 2x4HD is a lot of fun when inserted into the B60 tape loop, and provides DAC function as well. Look up t up, along with REW and UMIK-1.

R. Daneel

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Re: B60 upgrade path
« Reply #9 on: 17 Oct 2020, 07:35 am »
So it would seem the amp section of my B60 (having been upgraded to SST) can only be improved upon if I were to get a new amp with SST2 or cubed.  What about the preamp section?  Given the age of my B60, I think it has a BP20/BP25 preamp, which based on what's been posted here suggests that it's not too shabby compared to the current BP6. 

So it would appear that the only "upgrade" that might give me bigger bang for my $$ is maybe upgrading the needle of my turntable from the OM10 to say OM20?  Anyone care to comment if that's good value?  I have no plans to change speakers or CD player at this time.

Hi!

If I may be allowed to clarify something.

SST2 was ah upgrade over SST in that it reduced the crossover distortion which is what typically happens in class A/B amplifiers using multiple pairs of transistors.

Since B60 SST did not have multiple pairs of ttansistors but rather one pair per channel, it never received this upgrade nor did it require one. This was clearly explained by Mr. Tanner some years ago.

Furthermore, the difference between SST2 and Cubded is in the input stage, the latter using a patented circuit developed by Bryston and Mr. Salomie. This circuit is not present in BP-6 or BP-26 preamps and is not present in the B60 SST which preamp section is based off of BP-6.

If I were you, I would not bother upgrading the amplifier, it makes very little sense to do so because the benefits of a more recent amplifier would be questionable.

Also, let me say a little about the Rega Apollo. In my opinion, Rega is one of the few managed to create something special with the Wolfson DAC chip. To this day I still think Rega's top end is truly world-class, regardless of price. A proper top end is especially difficult to do on restrained budget and it is what usually differentiates good from exceptional digital audio source. But Rega does it in spades. I am happy for you.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Antun