Aksa and Northcreek

pauly · « **on:** 4 Mar 2005, 02:53 am »

Would this speaker kit be a good match for the Aksa 100n+ and GK1-R?
http://www.northcreekmusic.com/Manifest/ManifestInfo.htm

Has anyone built or heard a northcreek speaker kit?
Thanks
Paul

AKSA · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 03:44 am »

Measures fine for the AKSA, down to 3.6R - both AKSAs, though the 100W would give the most commanding performance. Crossovers are 3dB/octave at first, deepening to 18dB/octave - impedance corrected, a good load and very good drivers.

Cheers,

Hugh

Felipe · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 12:27 pm »

I do not know the speakers in question, but they do look like a very good project.

But for that kind of money i would assume you can do better.

The drivers used in that project are the SS8545, same used in the Proac Response D38, one of the best speakers in the world, successor of the famous Proac R3.8 class AA in stereophile. Only flaw : didnt reach 20Hz.
But neither does this Northcreek.
Dont you think is over priced for a kit project ? Just a thought...

Felipe

Al Garay · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Mar 2005, 04:03 pm »

Paul,

NorthCreek Music has an excellent reputation. George is regarded as one of the speaker designers who knows what he is doing. I have not read a negative review of their speakers.

The AKSAs would drive them with ease.

Al

pauly · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Mar 2005, 01:33 am »

Felipe,
When I think of a DIY project { and I love building stuff }, the word overpriced usually does not come to mind.
When I was deciding on the Aksa project, my alternative choice was to buy a beautiful shiney new amp with cool lights and the sexiest volume control knob I had ever seen. The audio shop let me sit on the leather couch , poured me a java, and a well dressed salesman told me how good it sounded . All for just $5999.99. It sounded OK but if you've heard an Aksa, it's a no-brainer ......... and the meaning of the word overpriced becomes clearly obvious.
The Aksa was chosen after lots of online reading. The positive reviews and testimonials about Hugh and his products made for an easy decision in terms of quality, service , and value.
This is why I am considering northcreek as my new speaker system.
Read Georges site and his reviews on many different forums. Yes it is a high end kit, but I want a high end kit. The bottom octave will be managed by dual active subs.

Regards,
Paul

Al Garay · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Mar 2005, 04:32 am »

Paul,

The Manifest are a statement type speakers. The only others that are not dipoles (like the SL Orion, JohnK Nao) to consider would be:

* BESL Phil Bamberg Series 5 MTM with the XLS subs ... this is complete with cabinets, real engineer who does the full design and has great ear for voicing
http://www.bamberglab.com/index.shtml

* Jim Salk Veracity HT3 3-way with beautiful cabinets for about the price of the Manifest kit; crossover designed by Dennis Murphy
http://www.salksound.com/

I would talk to all 3 designers and see if you can get a demo set to audition or a local owner to visit.

Very nice system you are building.

Al

pauly · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Mar 2005, 05:09 am »

Al,
I have spoken to Phil at BESL. His kits look real nice. I've used seas excel drivers in previous projects and liked them. The salk sound kits look good too. A friend of mine has those TC sound subdrivers that they use in the Veracity 3- way. They sound good also. I have also dealt with madisound http://www.madisound.com/ and zalytron http://www.zalytron.com/
Drivers aside, the appeal of northcreeks crossovers intrigue me.
George sells his X-over components to several high end commercial manufacturers including, I believe, B+W. In fact, he claims that the bulk of his business is component sales.

Thanks for the input
Paul

Al Garay · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Mar 2005, 05:26 am »

You've done your homework. You should go for it and let us know how it turns out.

You better have a good front end. If Hugh ever releases his DAC, then you will have lots of options for a good transport including going with a digital server... another plug for www.slimdevices.com very cool and it has a remote control.

Al

pauly · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Mar 2005, 05:45 am »

Al,
The slimdevices link does not load.

Not much hope of auditioning many speakers here in Victoria B.C.
The CSS site in Vancouver has a new line source kit also but the initial reviews are negative. He also has the Alpha LS . I've considered these.

http://www.creativesound.ca/index.html

As for source, I eagerly await the Daksa. Hopefully It will be the final link in my audio chain.

Paul

I am not an audiophile........... I just want his sound system.

keithvv · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Mar 2005, 10:13 pm »

Pauly,
I have built many speaker systems using the woofers of that kitset, and in fact have built two North Creek sets (the Rhythm and the Borealis).
Both were used with an AKSA 55 Nirvana with excellent results.
HOWEVER, I no longer use those speakers.
I have now gone to the SEAS drivers used in the Thor kit (see www.madisound.com). They allow the AKSA Nirvana to really shine (and vice versa).
The difference is in the details (to paraphrase an old saying).
The transient response of the SEAS drivers are truly incredible, and they don't sacrifice the bass extension at all.
The tweeter used in the Thor is also superb, which lets the speed and dynamics that Hugh has worked so hard to achieve come through.
The crossover network is also critical to this (and any speaker system), and the one used in the Thor is designed by a true master - Joe D'Appolito. If you build the speakers, don't scrimp on the crossover components - go for the "premium" ones found in the Madisound catalog. The premium components improve the sound of the speaker almost as much as the Nirvana upgrade improves the AKSA.
Cheers, and good luck
KVV

pauly · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 01:07 am »

KW, thanks for the input,
I've built so many dome based systems including the excel millenium.
Lately, I've heard some high end ribbon monitors and I love the natural sound from these big ribbons. I think I'm done with domes.
The AC G1 ribbon Crosses over at 1.3khz. While the Rhythms SS 9900 at 2.5 khz. Less upper end demand on the SS woofers I assume
Perhaps a G1 ribbon with excel mid woofs........??
Also , the north creek crossovers appear to be as premium as they come. Have a look on the site . Huge 8ga. inductors and fab reviews.

Decisions, Decisions........ I wanna build something.

Paul

AKSA · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 01:16 am »

Pauly,

You should listen to a Revelator tweeter.....

Cheers,

Hugh

Al Garay · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 01:53 am »

Paul,

I have fixed the link for slimdevices. It's www.slimdevices.com

I agree with the comparison of Seas Excel versus Scanspeak. When the crossover is done correctly, the voicing and detail of the Seas Excel woofers (with magnesium cones) are superb. The end result is a very revealing speaker. I prefer that compromise.

On the other hand, I have fond memories of ProAc Response 2 speakers with the ScanSpeak woofers, plenty of detail and greater low-end extension.

The Ellis 1801b, www.ellisaudio.com is another speaker to consider using the Excel W18E001 and Hiquphon OW1 tweeter that mates extremely well with AKSA gear. There have been several positive reviews describing that match. You are welcome to visit next time you are in Seattle to hear my setup. In terms of value, the 1801b are hard to beat.

From the 1801b, staying with Seas Excel based system, I would go to the BESL Series 5 MTM with the matching XLS subs followed by the SL Orion.

pauly · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 02:58 am »

1801b
Odin mk.III
Thor
SL Orion
Besl 5mtm........

I have visited ALL the sites and read tons of reviews. All EXCELlent products {no pun intended}

Does anyone out there like ribbons??

Paul

Al Garay · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 04:04 am »

I forgot ribbons. mac has an excellent system with the speakers using Fountek JP2 and Seas W15 in a sealed cabinet on top of W-frame subs using two 12" SCC300s. The fact he is using DEQX for active crossover and powering with Hypex UcD digital amps probably helps. Do a search in AudioCircle for mac and you are bound to find out all about it.

Another commercially available speaker using Seas Excel woofer and Ribbon with crossover designed by Dennis Murphy is Jim Salks Veracity HT3, http://www.salksound.com/

Here is a review where it bested the VMPS RM40
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=17129

Jim Salk is another super nice guy who happens (or happened) to be a recording engineer as well. Oh, and his woodworking skills are uncompromising and creative. Check his gallery.

I wish I could audition the Veracity HT3 and the BESL Series 5 MTM, not a likely roadshow.

Al

pauly · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 05:47 am »

Here is a review of the veracity from someone who has owned too many speakers { second of 2 reviews}

http://www.audioreview.com/Main%20Speaker/Salk%20Sound/PRD_326177_1594crx.aspx

He uses the terms " upfront "and "forward in nature"
Sounds like a polite way of saying "bright"

It's not the first time I've seen these magnesium drivers discribed this way. { mabey it's more in regards to the ribbon}

I spoke to George at Northcreek earlier today . He claims that SS makes custom 8545's for him with larger faster SD-1 motors.

He also said that the Manifest is in a completely different league from the Rhythm Signature { which uses the stock 8545's and the 9900 revelator.}

The truth is that I probably can't go wrong with any of these proven , raved about designs.

I should just bite the bullet and quit second guessing.

Paul

Rhythm Willie · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 06:08 am »

I have a 3 way system using 2X seas Excell for midrange & 2 Excell paper cones for base.

Yes, the Seas magnesium drivers are very revealing i.e.

bad recordings = bright, harsh etc

good recordings = wow, what harmonics,speed, fine detail and emotional impact.

I tend to try to stick to artists and labels that know how to do a good recording.

MarkM · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 07:44 am »

Rick Craig from Selah could whip something up for you using the Fountek ribbon and a Seas 7" Excel. Probably rework the xo on his SA-1 model for Seas woofer.

You can't go wrong with 1801b. I happen to love ribbons as well, and they are extremely affordable these days.

kyrill · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 04:31 pm »

one word of caution

With 3 or two way active crossovers (bi/tri-amping) , meaning having a "naked" loudspeaker interacting with an AKSA, you can ask Hugh, when using ribbons, if that can be safely done. If you see how much direct current for a brief moment forces the relative heavy woofer to move half an inch or so in activating and terminating the amp, the fragile o so thin ribbon has no protection at all as it is very naked without its passive filter components.
I suppose Hugh will suggest a simple elegant very musical sounding solution.
Actually with my DEQX setup and tri aksa's pro channel, my ribbons can use your advice Hugh

andyr · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Mar 2005, 09:31 pm »

Quote from: kyrill

one word of caution

With 3 or two way active crossovers (bi/tri-amping) , meaning having a "naked" loudspeaker interacting with an AKSA, you can ask Hugh, when using ribbons, if that can be safely done. If you see how much direct current for a brief moment forces the relative heavy woofer to move half an inch or so in activating and terminating the amp, the fragile o so thin ribbon has no protection at all as it is very naked without its passive filter components.
I suppose Hugh will suggest a si ...

Hi Kyrill,

I use an AKSA 25w (which is a down-rated 55) for my Maggie IIIa ribbons. Because it has no "power-on thump", there is absolutely no problem having a "nekked" ribbon.

The only problem comes if I forget to turn on the active crossover before the AKSAs (but, in 2 years I haven't blown a ribbon yet!)! So I keep all of these components on, all the time!

Regards,

Andy