[Yomaha]

I've got dual 5" drivers in my current speakers,so I've been really curious about how it would 'feel' with larger woofers moving the air.

[AvsFan]

I've got dual 5" drivers in my current speakers,so I've been really curious about how it would 'feel' with larger woofers moving the air.

I've got Omega's with dual 4.5" drivers, I measured, they're actually more 4" drivers but the simple fact is, my 10" driver in the ZU's absolutely crush the Omega's in clean SPL's, dynamics, pure force, depth, weight, and that visceral impact a larger driver gives you.
Stop being curious and go for it! 

[AvsFan]

Love the bass produced by large woofers.

I've gone through all types of speakers and from my own experience, there is no replacement for displacement. Period! No amount of cabinet wizardry or magic is going to make up for that. They might defy some laws of physics but it's laws of physics never the less. I do too. For a full range, subwooferless system, floor standing speakers with 10" drivers or more is the only way to go. Now that's just my opinion, but it's a good one! 

[AvsFan]

Agreed.  What I want from my system is a window into the performance.  Since I cannot see Gogol Bordello with my eyes, the spatial cues in the recording can allow me to sonically “see” them in my room in three dimensions.  That aids in the “suspension of disbelief”.  Another key is the visceral impact of the performance.  We tend to feel this strongly in our chest cavity, but also with our skin.  Having a lot of midbass energy is key.  I run dual Rhythmik F8 servo subwoofers that can run well into the midbass.  I can run them a bit higher than normal to beef up the midbass.  Even so, a 12” driver on the main speakers can move the air in the room much more effectively than smaller drivers.  A 12” driver moving at 100hz is moving a lot more air than a 5“ driver at the same frequency.  It will likely have lower excursion than the smaller driver for a given SPL, but the wavefront will originate from a diaphragm of about 113 sq in instead of 19 sq in in the smaller driver.  This broader, sonic “breeze” can be felt over a wider surface area and contributes to the whole body sensation of sound.

Oh, love me some Gogol! I think you are understanding what I am getting at. Of course I don't want the entire live venue performance at Red Rocks in my 12x10 room or I would just go buy a bunch of Marshall Stacks and crown amps. I want an "audiophile" experience of the music but on a scale of dynamics of a live concert. Whether it be Red Rocks, or a small venue or coffee house, acoustic concert. Or just a well recorded studio album. Yeah, I keep mentioning this in so many other posts, to me, the audio experience is more than just auditory. It needs to move me with sound and with sensatory/physical sensations. You're exactly correct. I love the concussive blast of drums, kick drums, and so on. And that beautiful low mid bass/range punch and slam, when you get it right, you really appreciate it. I've been researching kick drum frequencies and they start around 40-50hz and go well into the 400hz range. And it's not just the punch in that range, there is this complete weighty foundation of music in that range, if you don't have speakers that convey that, you're literally missing a key foundation in the music.

Check out this article by Paul McGowan at PS Audio. It's exactly how I feel about midbass. 

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/the-midbass-dilemma/

[Yomaha]

Ah, the never good enough aspect of being an audiophile rears it's ugly head.  There's a lot to be said for knowing when good enough is good enough.

Stereophile measurements tore up the Razz.  Not uncommon for high efficiency speakers (also look at their measurements for the latest K-horn which aren't pretty either).  My experience is that high efficiency speakers can lack deep bass and be full of colorations (it's hard to find a free lunch).  The laws of physics are what they are and materials have improved little over the decades.  In my book speaker efficiency around 93 dB/w/m is the ideal balance between dynamics and lack of various speaker/system distortions.  High efficiency speakers could reveal noise from your tube amp.

Basically every 3 dB doubles the power needed but only sounds half again as loud and 10 dB sounds twice as loud but requires 10 times the power.  So in the pursuit of higher sound pressure levels speaker efficiency is easier than adding power (unless you go for class D and your speakers can handle the vastly increased power). 

Have you considered adding one or more subwoofers?  Could really help with slam and filling the room for rock music.

Manufacturers often over rate speaker efficiencies, so shop with care and audition first. 

You might want to skip over to Digital Amp Company's circle where the owner is searching for high-efficiency speakers.

JLM, I agree about knowing when good enough is good enough, however,  I am 41 years young, and hopefully have a long way to go down the rabbit hole. Right now, the journey is the destination. Beyond making some cable changes and potentially the speakers, I don't see myself changing much core source & integrated pre/amp for a good long while.  I had pretty high gear turnover for the last five years but I feel like I'm really starting to understand what I like both sonically and aesthetically.  Kinda the same thing could be said about life in general after hitting 40

I read the Volti Razz specs and O/96 specs and in both cases yes, JA found the sensitivity was overstated a fair amount.  Admittedly some of Atkinson's measurement findings are beyond my current knowledge level, so I'm not really sure how it would impact the sound, but my general take away seemed that they didn't measure well, but sounded good.  I haven't read a bad review of any Volti speakers or Devore, but of course, it's subjective with a multitude of other factors at play. 

To what extent do unfavorable measurements, if at all, impact purchase decisions?

[FullRangeMan]

To what extent do unfavorable measurements, if at all, impact purchase decisions?
I would ask to what extent do unfavorable measurements impact sound quality?

[Yomaha]

Good point, FullRangeMan. It’s curious to me bc from time to time I see favorable reviews paired with unfavorable measurements.

[FullRangeMan]

What are the unfavorable measurements?
Hi sensitivity and benign impedance are important.

[Yomaha]

Perhaps ’unfavorable’ is too strong of a word that I chose, but if you’re interested I’d suggest reading John Atkinsons measurement article on the Razz’s in the August Stereophile. It’s pretty detailed, and as I mentioned, a fair amount of it is above my pay grade 

[Jon L]

Perhaps ’unfavorable’ is too strong of a word that I chose, but if you’re interested I’d suggest reading John Atkinsons measurement article on the Razz’s in the August Stereophile. It’s pretty detailed, and as I mentioned, a fair amount of it is above my pay grade 

Per JA:

"Volti specifies the Razz's sensitivity as "97dB." My estimate was 93dB(B)/2.83V/m—while this is lower than the specification, it is still much higher than average. Although the Razz's nominal impedance is specified as 6 ohms, the magnitude (fig.1, solid trace) rarely drops below 8 ohms. The average impedance is around 12 ohms, though there is a minimum value of 4.1 ohms at 100Hz. Though the electrical phase angle (dashed trace) is occasionally high, the magnitude is also high at the same frequencies, which ameliorates the Volti speaker's demand for current.

The Volti Razz's measured performance suggests that its treble balance can be adjusted by experimenting with toe-in. The manner in which its impedance magnitude smoothly drops from just over 18 ohms in the midrange to 6 ohms at the top of the audioband also suggests that the rise in the speaker's high-frequency on-axis response will, to some extent, be countered by using a tube amplifier's 8 ohm tap, which will offer a higher output impedance than the 4 ohm tap."

What JA reports tells me that this speaker may work very well for somebody like yourself who are looking for higher sensitivity and power using 25 watt tube amplifier. 

I do not believe I have EVER seen a Stereophile speaker review (or any other mags) where the speaker measures at the stated sensitivity.  All measure lower, often much lower.   97 dB stated but measuring 93 dB is actually quite decent, especially given the relatively easy-to-drive impedance curve.  What is often seen are 88 dB rated speakers measuring more like 83 dB, often with horrendous impedance plot, simply horrible on amps. 

Klipsch Cornwall IV also retails for $6000, but some have reported a bit of DIY modding greatly helps the SQ. 15" bass driver does have its advantages.

I do believe that at the $6000 level, I would prefer to go with a well-designed 2-way horn speakers than 3-way. 

Coincidentally, Audiokinesis Azel tower 2-way horn speakers sells for that amount.
https://jamesromeyn.com/audiokinesis-speaker-models/azel-towerb-towerm/

JTR 212RT comes in at $5600 and is the speaker I would personally buy if I was at that budget level.  It is technically a 3-way, but the unique coaxial compression drivers have their advantages.  One just needs to hide them in darkness or have an understanding spouse.
https://www.jtrspeakers.com/jtr-noesis-212rt

[opnly bafld]

"I do not believe I have EVER seen a Stereophile speaker review (or any other mags) where the speaker measures at the stated sensitivity.  All measure lower, often much lower."

There have been some that do, although the percentage that have is no doubt low compared to those that do not.

JA mentions something like this: "Harbeth specifies the P3ESR as having a sensitivity of 83.5dB/W/m. My estimate was slightly less than this, at 83dB(B)/2.83V/m, but this is within experimental error of the specification."

The main reasons that I have seen are most companies inflate due to 2 speakers vs. 1 and some even include some room gain.

[Jon L]

JA mentions something like this: "Harbeth specifies the P3ESR as having a sensitivity of 83.5dB/W/m. My estimate was slightly less than this, at 83dB(B)/2.83V/m, but this is within experimental error of the specification."

Good on Harbeth for honesty, but 83dB 
I'm currently running 107dB sensitivity from 1Khz and above with active crossover, and my puny amps are sweating just thinking about 83dB speakers...

[JLM]

Suggest reading Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" 3rd edition as the consummate audiophile primer, especially for how speakers behave in-room.  $60 well invested.  Don't be intimidated by the 500 page length, it's written to be read as needed and has a good table of contents.  One of his main points is that modern science (and a large group of well educated ears in double blind testing) can predict good sound, so less need to rely on individual subjective reviews.  Another point is that different types of home speakers aren't going to match the performance of studio/mastering speakers, so what you get from those non-traditional designs aren't going to match what the producers of music intended. 

[FireGuy]

Yep, higher efficiency speakers mean louder and more dynamic with the watts you already have.

Yes indeed.  I have no plans to go back to low efficient speakers.  None.  My mid field space with the Omega Super 5's (94.5 dB) go plenty loud when you need that added slam now and again.