Power cables-I believe..

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #40 on:** 20 Mar 2003, 04:14 am »

Quote from: markC

But the Absolute was an improvement over the stock cord on my cdp, as I mentioned in my first post. Surely your not suggesting that one would have to spend large on power conditioning to enjoy the benefits of a power cord.

I don't use the Absolute in my power amps and I am not suggesting spending inordinate amounts of money for power conditioning.

A good audio system must be balanced--it must not have chokes. Power stability and delivery is usually a choke. You need to clean all the contacts of all the receptacles in your audio circuit, treat them with ProGold, make sure polarity is right and get a cryo'ed outlet like the ACME silver plated (20 amp). Next step is to get balanced line conditioning for your digital components. This can be done rather cheaply using used ONEAC isolation transformers from eBay and the Jon Risch DIY filter. Jon Risch encourages the use of isolation transformers.

Make a power box and burn in your power cords and cryo'ed outlets using your refrigerator. It works.

If you do ALL these things your system will improve tremendously and it will be the most cost effective improvement you could ever do.

DVV · « **Reply #41 on:** 21 Mar 2003, 09:08 pm »

What exactly does "power conditioning" mean? Is it just another voodoo expression, or what?

Cheers,
DVV

nathanm · « **Reply #42 on:** 21 Mar 2003, 10:18 pm »

It makes the electricity smooth and silky and helps prevent unsightly split ends. You know how when you strip off the insulation sometimes the wires get all frayed and you poke your fingers? Well, with power conditioning that doesn't happen, the wires lay real nice and have a healthy shine.

Cable burn-in boxes eh? Man, my eyes are hurting from all the rolling. Maybe a person could buy an old decrepit house and rip out all the wiring cause, man THAT stuff has gotta be WAY burned-in! Whoo! I hope the real estate agents know they've got an additional selling point.

"Well Mr. Goldcoat the house needs work. The paint is peeling, the walls are cracked in places, the plumbing leaks and this old electrical wiring, I'd have to replace it all!"

"No no, you don't understand! This is a high fidelity house! These cables have 85 years of burn-in! Your stereo will sound sweet as all get out!"

"No shit?"

"Would I lie to you?"

"I wish you would've said that earlier! Where do I sign?"

audioengr · « **Reply #43 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 01:35 am »

Power conditioning usually refers to two things:
1) low-pass filtering to stop high-frequency voltage spikes - these can be active devices known as Varistors or Thyristors or just series inductors and parallel capacitors.
2) Lightning arrestors

I recommend against any of these for use wiht power amps.

A few types actually regulate the AC voltage by using a motor controlled variac or an inverter to recreate the sinusiodal waveform. These I refer to as "regenerators". They can be very beneficial, particularly the ones that can raise the frequency to 70 or 80 Hz.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #44 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 03:42 am »

Quote from: DVV

What exactly does "power conditioning" mean? Is it just another voodoo expression, or what?

Cheers,
DVV

Of all people...

In my book (and I have no electrical training whatsoever), power conditioning includes everything that helps stabilize and deliver clean current. Inludes devices represented by the following categories:

Balanced power

Isolation transformers

Quantum level filters

Surge suppressors

Richard Gray (whatever it really is)

Pure electrical waveform conditioners (Quantum brand )

Capacitor based (DeZorel, Vans Evers, ONEAC, etc)

AC regenerators

And so on...

********************

Nathan:

Burn in of cables, receptacles, etc. is a reality. I received today a set of $600 (list) interconnects which the maker claims to have been mostly burned in. I left my Sheffield/XLO burn in disc running at a hig volume, placing cushions to absorb the sound. I went to do laundry and when I came back they were not near as bright. A fantastic change in just two hours! They outperformed my Bear Labs interconnects ($400 list) by a far margin. Too bad I can't afford that stuff--it's making a real difference in my system.

You should use your skills to get a date with a girl like the one that's in my Avatar. Your whole world view will change--guaranteed. Take it from someone who's been there....

markC · « **Reply #45 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 05:02 am »

Doesn't the girl in your avatar do your laundry?

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #46 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 05:06 am »

I have started a revolution!!!

nathanm · « **Reply #47 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 06:16 am »

Quote

Burn in of cables, receptacles, etc. is a reality. I received today a set of $600 (list) interconnects which the maker claims to have been mostly burned in. I left my Sheffield/XLO burn in disc running at a hig volume, placing cushions to absorb the sound. I went to do laundry and when I came back they were not near as bright. A fantastic change in just two hours! They outperformed my Bear Labs interconnects ($400 list) by a far margin. Too bad I can't afford that stuff--it's making a real difference in my system.

Reality? Whose reality is the question here!

How do you know what component has changed in that time? How do you know it's the cables? The amp could've warmed up to proper operating temperature, the voice coils could've gotten hotter, the rubber surrounds loosened up a bit. Were you listening to the same exact section of music? Sitting in the same position? Same volume level? Mood change now that you've got clean clothes? Excited about a new component? Other electrical devices turned on or off in the house during that time?

Show me some papers where copper wire changes it's characteristics so dramatically within two hours to the exclusion of any other factor; such that high frequencies are measurably attenuated. Otherwise I think it's a stretch. There's any number of things that could've been responsible for what you heard and $600 cables the very least of which in my opinion.

Fer crying out loud, tape a piece of tissue paper over the tweeter if you want less brightness. Aim the speakers differently. Anything besides drop big money on some overhyped wire! I don't get it, why do people WANT to spend that kind of dough on something so boring?

Quote

You should use your skills to get a date with a girl like the one that's in my Avatar. Your whole world view will change--guaranteed. Take it from someone who's been there....

Ummm...so if I date Miss Nude World I'll suddenly feel overpriced hifi cables are a great thing?

Huh!? Besides, if I did that then I'd introduce a WAF factor or rather MNWAF, and then no overpriced placebos for me!

I apologize to everybody in advance.

You may now commence with steadfastly defending your right to throw your money down the audiophile toilet.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #48 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 06:27 am »

Here's some unrequested Psychic advice, Nathan:

"Write less and listen more..."

nathanm · « **Reply #49 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 06:45 am »

How about "Think less, buy more"

That's what our friendly cable makers would like for us to do.

But me write less? Fuck no. Listen more? Sure, no problem!

Still, I wish there were more hours in the day!

theborg · « **Reply #50 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 07:46 am »

Um... this is a friendly notice that this thread is on the verge of being moved into Fight Club.

Nathan, nobody has any obligation to prove anything to you. Kindly allow people a little more space to express their opinions on subjects that interest them.

Thanks

nathanm · « **Reply #51 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 08:21 am »

Sorry. Didn't mean for it to come across negatively.

DVV · « **Reply #52 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 08:23 am »

Quote from: Psychicanimal

Quote from: DVV
What exactly does "power conditioning" mean? Is it just another voodoo expression, or what?

Cheers,
DVV

Of all people...

No Beastie, you missed the point. Of course I know what balanced and all that from your list is - my point was the word "conditioning".

Look at it from a semantic point of view. Pure marketing, no less. In effect, there are filters, with their many variations, and regenerators, such as the PS Audio series. These are REAL differences because they take two very distinctive approaches, quite different from each other.

A balancing transformer is in effect a filter as applied to incoming power, albeit with a different mode of operation as opposed to classic forms of filters.

So, filter I can understand, no matter how it actually works, a regenerator I can also understand bevause even in name, it describes fairly well what it does and how it goes about it, surge arrests I can understand.

But "conditioners"? Doesn't that sound grand? Hey, that's no filter there, baby, that's a CONDITIONER. And in real life, there are no conditions, all of them have a very strict set of operating rules, so even in that you can't call them by any argumentative name, as they are all very fascist about the way they work, no buts, no ifs, no maybes.

Cheers,
DVV

Jay S · « **Reply #53 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 09:38 am »

Quote from: DVV

What exactly does "power conditioning" mean? Is it just another voodoo expression, or what?

Look at it from a semantic point of view. Pure marketing, no less.

But "conditioners"? Doesn't that sound grand? Hey, that's no filter there, baby, that's a CONDITIONER.

In this light, I do like Nathan's point that a conditioner makes power silky smooth. I know -- AC power is a wave and a power conditioner keeps it from getting all tangled up.

Really, conditioner, filiter whatever.

What surprises me, though is that many people have reported that the PS Audio regenerators add their own signature to the sound. This seems odd since theoretically they output a clean AC waveform. Could it be that most equipment is voiced using impure waveforms and therefore are voiced to compensate for the crappy power they are fed?

One thing I do know, I don't have the space for the PS Audio powerplants and I don't want to spend the money.

Marbles · « **Reply #54 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 02:18 pm »

I have a PS Audio PP600 W/MW that my front end is plugged into (except my TT).

I have noticed NO sonic signature. It certainly sounds different from when plugged into a wall recepticle. To me that adds a signature.

Of course it all depends on your perspective....

markC · « **Reply #55 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 03:26 pm »

Hey man, all I wanted was to share my experience with my power cables and to get a little advice!

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #56 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 03:37 pm »

Quote from: markC

Hey man, all I wanted was to share my experience with my power cables and to get a little advice!

Don't worry, you're well on your way...

If you follow the steps I wrote you will be in a very good position to notice changes downstream: cable swaps, tuning (damping, isolation, coupling...), room acoustics, component changes.

I have found out one can get by with cheap power cords and speaker cables. Interconnects is a different ball game, though.

markC · « **Reply #57 on:** 23 Mar 2003, 04:55 am »

This is what I am going to do-be it right or just another ongoing tweak/experiment... Build a quasi flexirack to get my system out from under the bar, run a 2nd dedicated line for digital front end, add some acoustic treatment in the top corners of the front wall and build a pair of Chis V flavour 2 power cords for my DM amp. I will post b4 and after photos on my gallery when I'm done and share any changes I experience if anyone cares to check it out.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #58 on:** 23 Mar 2003, 07:16 pm »

Quote from: markC

This is what I am going to do-be it right or just another ongoing tweak/experiment... Build a quasi flexirack to get my system out from under the bar, run a 2nd dedicated line for digital front end, add some acoustic treatment in the top corners of the front wall and build a pair of Chis V flavour 2 power cords for my DM amp. I will post b4 and after photos on my gallery when I'm done and share any changes I experience if anyone cares to check it out.

Everything looks good to me except for the rack. An IKEA Lack table based rack woud be much better:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/75391.html

markC · « **Reply #59 on:** 23 Mar 2003, 10:20 pm »

Quote from: Psychicanimal

Quote from: markC
This is what I am going to do-be it right or just another ongoing tweak/experiment... Build a quasi flexirack to get my system out from under the bar, run a 2nd dedicated line for digital front end, add some acoustic treatment in the top corners of the front wall and build a pair of Chis V flavour 2 power cords for my DM amp. I will post b4 and after photos on my gallery when I'm done and share any changes I experience if anyone cares to check it out.

Quote

Everything looks good to me except for the rack. An IKEA Lack table based rack woud be much better:
htt
p://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/75391.html

What's wrong with the flexi? The rack I'm planning on is more of a salamander clone 4- 3/4" rods, 3/4" oak shelves tightly clamped together and all spiked to the floor.