The Sound of Capacitors

karthikn · « **on:** 18 Mar 2003, 12:17 am »

I am trying to understand different capacitor types and when to choose what type. Saw this article: http://members.aol.com/sbench102/caps.html

rob · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Mar 2003, 09:52 am »

you have just opened one of the biggest can of worms

. as with all things audio everyone has their own 'prefered sonic'.
why caps all sound a tad different ,i dont really know,but they do,to my ears anyway.
to my ears pio ,good pio's are the bees knees - though i havnt heard the new beeswax caps

. they may not have all the speed of teflon,or the detail of some of the other plastic caps ,they just sound right,to me.
plastic caps - i know its a general term but most caps are plastic based ( though we get plastics from oil,heck i could be disappearing up a hole in a mo) are in general clean,fast and detailed but some have a brightness to them,which account for the 'speed' sonic.
i could waffle on for pages on what i have found sonicly but at the end of the day you'll still need to play with a couple of different caps in the same positions and go from there.
these links may help..

http://www.triodeel.com/capnotes.htm

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=aeeb87cb85ee9d19b7e1277459099cc7&threadid=11153

http://www.capacitors.com/pickcap/pickcap.htm

rob

ginger · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Mar 2003, 03:09 am »

Electronics World (Published in England) has over the past 12 to 18 months published a series of 5 articles on exactly this subject - complete with detailed test results of actual capacitors.

These articles are the only place I have seen complete technical test results presented with summaries. Everything else I've seen is based upon opinion ONLY.

As a tech type myself there were few surprises and in general it supports most of the popular views presented as opinion elsewhere. Superior Dielectrics gave superior test results - the unfortunate thing for we DIY'ers is that these also have the superior price. The articles also give guidance where savings could be made..ie those cases where the very much more expensive item did not give significantly better results than a lower cost item.

If you have a genuine interest in Capcitor Sound and want the FACTS rather than just the OPINIONS then I recommend this set of articles to you.

Cheers,
Ginger

rob · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Mar 2003, 08:59 am »

Ginger
did you have a look at the links i left?

rob

gonefishin · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Mar 2003, 02:20 pm »

Hi there

Ginger, do you have any links to these papers?

If you have a genuine interest in Capcitor Sound and want the FACTS rather than just the OPINIONS then I recommend this set of articles to you.

It's just a little tough (for me) to guess what the papers are saying...not having seen them. I can understand objective measurments...but once you the sound of capacitors it does become subjective...and matter of opinion...you cannot objectively listen. (but that's a different matter I suppose)

I think it can get tough when you try to describe the effects of a capacitor with audio. Yes, it is good to have a good ground in science...but with the end result...it still comes down to preference (or opinion) on how you think the dang thing sounds.

What were the tests that the Electronics World published? Were they only dealing with capacitors...or dealing with caps used in one specific area. While some caps may "perform" better than others...don't some have better applications than others that may...or may not perform better?

thanks...take care>>>>>

audioengr · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Mar 2003, 03:32 am »

Rob is right. I have heard conflicting information from all different people that are in the modding business. Some like the Solen fast-caps for signal path. Others like the Audience Auricaps. For power supply, they all like the black-gate caps, but some swear by the non-polarized, even for DC. I believe that for signal-path, it is hard to beat polystyrenes, unless you can get expanded teflon. The jury is still out for HF power-supply decoupling caps. Important parameter there is low-inductance and low ESR, IMO.

ginger · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Mar 2003, 11:11 pm »

Rob, Yes I looked at the links.

For those of you looking for the Electronics World Articles I looked thru my files.

Part 1 July 2002 - Design of the Oscillator used for Testing

Part 2 September 2002 - Design of the Filter/Preamp Buffer used for Testing

Part 3 October 2002 - Test results capacitors up to 10nF
Recommended COG Ceramics => Polystyrene => Polypropylene => Polycarbonate
Avoid Polyester (PET)
Mica ranged from amoungst the best to amongst the worst (be careful)

Part 4 November 2002 - Test results capacitors 100nF to 1 uF
Recommended Polyphenylene Sulphide also some physically large polypropylene are avail. in this range
Ceramic Disc WORST, PET really bad

Part 5 December 2002 - Test results capacitors approx 1 uF
Nothing really great
Forced to use PET which were better than nonpolarised electrolytics which were better than polarised electrolytics
PET at its limited best when DC across them minimised.
NB: Tantalums NOT Tested ???

Part 6 ??January 2003 - Test results capacitors 10uF and above. Sorry I missed getting this issue

Hope this is of some help
Cheers
Ginger

rob · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Mar 2003, 08:46 am »

Ginger
i have a serch for this on the web, no luck. any change of you making a scanned copy or two as i would like to read it.

rob

ginger · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Mar 2003, 10:49 pm »

Quote from: rob

Ginger
i have a serch for this on the web, no luck. any change of you making a scanned copy or two as i would like to read it.

rob

Rob,
Sorry no acess to a scanner. I can only suggest a call to your local library to see if they might have Electronics World on the shelf. A Uninversity or Tech. College library would almost certainly have it. There was also a note in one of the final articles that the author was going to put all of the articles, plus extended test results onto a CD and make it available. The author's name is "Cyril Bateman". Might be worth a search on his name.

Cheers,
Ginger

Tyson · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Mar 2003, 11:43 pm »

Link to Electronics World online:

http://www.softcopy.co.uk/electronicsworld/

rob · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Mar 2003, 08:34 am »

Tyson
thanks for that,you much have better trained search engines

rob

hoxuanduc · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Apr 2003, 10:16 pm »

This is from direct experience:

I bypassed a pair of 9.1uF Axon caps on the series tweeter circuit with 0.1uF Audiocap Theta ($5 each). The tweeter is a 9500. Can you say smooothhh? No break-in even needed. And I thought the problem was the solid state amp!

So I think caps do sound differently.

eico1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Apr 2003, 12:54 am »

without considering the effect of the 9.1cap, .1 and an 8 Ohm tweeter would give a 3dB of about 200kHz, so maybe it isn't necessarily the cap making the difference in sonics?

steve