Extreme Toe In with full range driver speakers

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magnetmanfl

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Extreme Toe In with full range driver speakers
« on: 22 May 2020, 04:07 pm »
I am a firm believer that extreme toe in with full range driver speakers in enhances/widens the soundstage

ServerAdmin

Re: Extreme Toe In with full range driver speakers
« Reply #1 on: 22 May 2020, 04:55 pm »
Hi, I've changed your displayed username so that it's not your email address.

Phil A

Re: Extreme Toe In with full range driver speakers
« Reply #2 on: 22 May 2020, 04:58 pm »
Welcome! - Which speakers do you use?

Wind Chaser

Re: Extreme Toe In with full range driver speakers
« Reply #3 on: 22 May 2020, 05:15 pm »
Welcome to Audio Circle.  :D

What full range drivers have you all tried?

twitch54

Re: Extreme Toe In with full range driver speakers
« Reply #4 on: 22 May 2020, 05:58 pm »
I am a firm believer that extreme toe in with full range driver speakers in enhances/widens the soundstage

Welcome aboard ! and I'm a firm believer that such a 'generalized statement' is false ............

ArthurDent

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Re: Extreme Toe In with full range driver speakers
« Reply #5 on: 22 May 2020, 11:42 pm »
Greetings & Welcome to AC magnetmanfl   :thumb:

FullRangeMan

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Re: Extreme Toe In with full range driver speakers
« Reply #6 on: 22 May 2020, 11:44 pm »
Welcome  :thumb:

richidoo

Re: Extreme Toe In with full range driver speakers
« Reply #7 on: 23 May 2020, 12:45 am »
I am a firm believer that extreme toe in with full range driver speakers in enhances/widens the soundstage

Yes it will, in the same way that "stereo enhance" mixing techniques work. They take a little left treble, delay it and play it on the right and viceyversey. Makes a big wide soundstage. You're accomplishing the same thing by pointing the narrowly beaming treble of a full range driver toward the opposite sidewalls so the treble from the speakers is attenuated off axis, and the treble you do get is reflected off the opposite wall and delayed to the mids by the longer reflection path, while the mids are still heard off axis direct from the speaker. Delayed and swapped sides. Just like a Madonna record! 
It's an interesting idea!

JLM

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Re: Extreme Toe In with full range driver speakers
« Reply #8 on: 23 May 2020, 01:06 pm »
I am a firm believer that extreme toe in with full range driver speakers in enhances/widens the soundstage

Welcome and I agree!  (With a caveat.)

Am running 16 year old Bob Brines (retired) FTA-2000 that Fostex F200a drivers (8 inch, no whizzer, AlNiCo magnet, rated 30-20,000 Hz at 8 ohms, 89 dB/w/m, $575 each when last available) in floor standing Martin King inspired transmission line cabinets.  Had Bud Purvine (inventor) add EnABL treatments.  Duke LeJeune suggested adding "Late Ceiling Splash" tweeters (Dayton Audio 1 1/8 inch soft domes in parallel with a capacitor).  The tweeters sit on the floor directly behind the speakers aimed upwards.  Reading Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" convinced me to add 3 carefully placed subs in my 8ft x 13ft x 21ft room to address inherent in-room bass peaks/dips (in a mid-field setup).

Speakers are 5.5ft from front wall, 2ft from side walls, 9ft apart, 7ft from listening position, toed-in to cross 2ft in front of listening position.  Center stage imaging is maintained while high frequencies are enhanced thanks to the tweeters.  Soundstage is enlarged compared to a equilateral speaker/listening position setup while maintaining image specificity.  Note that I also have ten GIK 2ft x 4ft 244 absorption panels at front, side, and rear wall first reflection points.  Also have three tall randomly filled bookcases at midpoint of side walls.  And use <500 Hz version of Dirac.

BTW the same setup is recommended for controlled directivity designed speakers.  And single drivers are in effect wave guides so also follow controlled directivity thinking to some degree.

mick wolfe

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Re: Extreme Toe In with full range driver speakers
« Reply #9 on: 23 May 2020, 07:43 pm »
Extreme toe-in is certainly worth a try in many cases.  It may or may not be your cup of tea, but it's free to try.  I've had excellent extreme toe-in results with Ohm 1000's in my small listening room and with JBL Studio 580's in my larger listening room.