[G E]

Hello fellow VMPS’rs,

Idly thinking about upgrading preamp

I now have a Bel Canto Pre 6 that is 5.1 capable all analog output. It was great while I was immersed in surround program material. But my focus is 2 channel now. All the surround stuff is gone.

My only complaint and not a big one is a slightly lean lower midrange and upper bass.  My system is highly resolving and very fast.

Anyone using VAC or AR preamps?  The Renaissance MK V and 5SE/6 respectively are of interest.  I’d buy on the used market.

Bryston 28 bsst-2 power amps.

ge

[kmmd]

I am currently using a VAC preamp.  My first exposure with VAC occurred over a decade ago at a B&M store in Walnut Creek, CA.  He had a VAC Signature preamp and VTL monoblocks driving Magnepan ribbon speakers.  It was a jaw dropping experience and forever etched a memory.  I ended up purchasing the Signature MkIIa SE last year as I need the HT bypass.  Since you’re interested in two-channel only, the Renaissance Mk V would be perfect.

I have not heard the 28B SST2 or a ARC Reference 6, but I do love a tubed preamp with SS amp combination.  I have 7B SST’s, but they are used for the low frequencies of my Magnepan’s.  It’s been a while, but I do remember listening to a Reference 10 in an all Audio Research system at an audio show years ago.  I did like the system, but it was in a large room.

Here are a few things to think about: 

The Audio Research preamps use 6H30 tubes which have few opportunities for tube rolling.  You have the stock tubes (Sovtek I believe), Electro harmonix or mil spec Reflektor 6H30P DR tubes.  They are all good tubes, but I ended up using the Reflektor’s for my ModWright LS36.5 Preamp.  It is detailed, transparent and neutral.

VAC preamps use 6922’s which give you a vast number of tubes to roll.  However, 6922 tubes can be very costly.  I started with a pair of Mullard’s which are warm, but the bass was a bit bloated.  I obtained a pair of US made Amperex PQ’s with gold pins which I like very much.  They are more detailed, transparent and accurate.  About 2 weeks ago, I bought a pair of Telefunken’s from a dealer who calls his special tubes “Kevin’s stash.”  These tubes are the holy grail and unveiled so much more detail and are extremely holographic, have so much presence and incredible dispersion.   My system is now even more emotional, engaging, seductive and addicting.  BTW, I use a Pass Labs X250.8 for my mids and highs and a pair of REL S/5 SHO subs as well.

Going back to the Audio Research, you can upgrade the 6 to 6 SE for about $3K.  The VAC’s cannot be upgraded.  You will need to sell the VAC to go the next level up. 

Here are a few links for you:
Audio Research forum on Aficionado: https://www.audioaficionado.org/forumdisplay.php?s=419c4ce7d3e2a36f591391bec336eed9&f=91
6922 tubes: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm

Happy listening!  Both companies are excellent and produce the finest equipment.  I’m sure that you will be happy with either preamp.

Ken

[GeorgeAb]

Sorry little help here as no experience with VAC and AR experience is too foggy as it was back in the 90's.  The VAC is saying all the right things with no global feedback, looks stunning, and great reviews. Looks like a really, really nice preamp.  Even the newer AR stuff looks like it from the 90's.

My choice was Balanced Audio Technology; I am a fan. IMO Victor Komenko's designs are fantastic sounding, built like a tank, and brilliant in their topology and function. He too has been going to the 6H30, but as said limits your selection of tube choices.  I stuck with his older 6922 design. 

[G E]

Thanks for your replies!

Helps to get input. Ultimately I need to demo a unit in house and see what it contributes to the system.

Trying to get a sonic picture and winnow  the field before I get to that point.

[2bigears]

  well I once had the big VAC and they are top shelf.  Kinda big $$ though.  Even used if they come along.  If AR compares I'm interested.  The VAC was really good with a great phono ,,,,

[Bob Stark]

I was a VMPS demonstrator during Brian's last 5 years in the Chicago suburbs.  Had many of the VMPS speakers and still use the RM40 BCSE w/ MLS cabinets fully loaded.  I used an Audible Illusions preamp (either the 2D or the 3A w/ John Curl MC phono) for about 22 years.  Loved those preamps with a good SS amp.  Had a Bryston 8B, then Edge M6, and now have Nuforce Reference 9 V3 SE mono amps w/ TDSS level 3 upgrades.  The preamp I now have is pretty awesome, but the designer has passed away a few years ago--TRL DUDE.  It has a few upgrades from when I bought it used.  It has what you're looking for--potent bass, very good soundstage, detail, and DYNAMIC.  The Nuforce amps as they are now, makes for an extremely fine sound with the RM40's.  IF you can find a DUDE on the used market, you would be thrilled with the sound.

[G E]

ob, thanks for the info on the Dude.  They do not   often come up for sale.

Interestingly, last weekend I played a blu ray that had lots of low frequency material and I was surprised how well it played through the RM30's with no sub.  Makes me think that the problem does NOT lie with the preamp at all and that I should keep my eyes open for a VMPS sub.

I'm in the Atlanta area, they don't come up for sale often.  But we have friends and family in the DC area so that might be do-able.

I believe some of Brian's subwoofers were available as a kit. 

Were these supplied as cabinets and drivers or just schematics and a parts list and a hearty "atta boy"?  I have a table saw and all 10 digits so that's an option.

[Elizabeth]

I own a VAC Standard, and a ARC SP-15.
I had both on my system for many years, I damaged the VAC power supply box knocking it over and off a little stand... Sadly I have not had the time to get it fixed by Vac.
The ARC I still use and keep for the three tube phono section. It is still in use since I bought it used ten years ago. I have several $$ phono section and like the ARC Sp-15 very much.
 sine neither is the model you want to get  i will not say much about the sound. The ARC is really clean sound with a trace of warmth. The VAC was  special and I loved it.
using it as a glorified tube buffer for my digital.
I would buy some VAC hands down over an ARC.. no particular reason just would.
Even though you will only pry either of my VAC or ARC out of my cold dead hands..
Ditto the Threshold FET TEN line and phono I have.

[GeorgeAb]

Interestingly, last weekend I played a blu ray that had lots of low frequency material and I was surprised how well it played through the RM30's with no sub.  Makes me think that the problem does NOT lie with the preamp at all and that I should keep my eyes open for a VMPS sub.

I'm in the Atlanta area, they don't come up for sale often.  But we have friends and family in the DC area so that might be do-able.

I had seen a VMPS sub in Maryland on Craigslist for $40 just a few weeks ago. It had a driver problem, but certainly could of been repaired.  I just checked and it has been since removed.  I recall you went from RM-30M to Series II.  I never used my sub with the RM-30M, but started after I updated to the Series II.
 

[G E]

So in the end I got a deal on a lightly used Pass Labs xp-22 preamp. Solid state.... I read lots of reviews and it fit the sonic profile I was after.  I decided I didn’t want tubes in TWO devices. My phono preamp takes 8 and feeding it 1950’s NOS tubes is expensive. Plus I didn’t want the extra hassle of a 2nd tubed piece.

Just set it up last night. The sweep frequency generator aka cable cooker has run 24 hours through entire chain.

Looking forward to listening session tonight.

[G E]

It’s stoopid good. More to follow.

[G E]

More to follow said I and here it is.

I loved the XP-22 and it was a great fit for the rest of the system. But I did NOT stop reading and the user reviews of the xp-32 became a worm gnawing my brain.

You know how it is.

The dealer has a generous trade in program and I took advantage.

Early stages of break in - it’s a demo with few hours- but the improvement on day 1 with cold phono tubes, cold bryston 28s and cold essentially new preamp flabbergasted me.

Listening tonight day 3 and nice improvement. One recording tonight featured a kick drum that must have been treated with padding. Played this record 50 times and never heard ithe soft detail articulated thusly. That’s something.

We have beautifully resolving speakers thanks to Brian. Here’s a preamp to take full advantage and doing so with every musical advantage.

There is a sense of ease that is uncanny. Detail in spades. Beautiful tonality.

Something special here and no tubes to worry about.

Can’t wait for full break in. Running Hagerman cable cooker to accelerate results

Stay tuned.

[Markwatkiss]

Addiction,the gift that keeps on giving.

[JakeJ]

Now that's funny right there, I don't care who y'are.

[GeorgeAb]

Just googled the price of xp-32 preamp; note to self, do not read user reviews of the xp-32.

Seriously, huge congratulations Greg! 

[Stimpy]

Just googled the price of xp-32 preamp; note to self, do not read user reviews of the xp-32.

Seriously, huge congratulations Greg!

I definitely agree.  That's why I stick with gear from Schiit Audio.  It sounds great, and performs well above it's price point.  And best of all, it's affordable...!   

[Lkdog]

I have a VAC standard LE I bought used.
It's excellent in every way. Dead quiet, transparent, warm, nice soudstage, and when I make upgrades or tweaks it is good enough to reveal the impact.

[G E]

Bought used/demo.

List price would make it impossible!

[G E]

I definitely agree.  That's why I stick with gear from Schiit Audio.  It sounds great, and performs well above it's price point.  And best of all, it's affordable...!   

I have an entry level Schiit DAC I bought B stock $95 landed cost!

Sounds surprisingly good. Needed something for Apple TV