What are your impressions of OB speakers?

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DeruDog

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What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« on: 4 May 2020, 04:50 pm »
I am considering X-Statik speakers, but have never used OB speakers before, and I wonder what owners of OB (or former owners) think.

What are your good and bad impressions from switching to Open Baffle?  I would be interested to hear if music was better or worse, movies the same since I will be listening in a movie/listening room.  My room is 14x20x10 give-or-take, and I am also curious if different sized rooms or venues made a difference.  Or if treatment of the room made a difference for you in the switch.  I will have room to place the speakers 3' from the wall, and plan to use a pair of SVS 2000 ported subwoofers.

I would be equally interested to hear if someone has not enjoyed OB and switched back to box speakers.  Or if you listen to OB for some things and box for something else/somewhere else.

Anyway, having never used OB speakers before, I'd be interested in what you couls tell me about what to expect, pros and cons.

Early B.

Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #1 on: 4 May 2020, 05:41 pm »
Since you have the space, a well-designed OB speaker will generally sound better than speakers in a box. Why? Because speakers in a box sound like speakers in a box.   

jgerber4

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Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #2 on: 4 May 2020, 05:50 pm »
I have not heard the GR OB speakers, but they seem to be well liked.  I built a pair of the Linkwitz LX521 speakers last year, and I think that they are wonderful.  When listening to reasonably well recorded music, they  disappear to a greater extent than anything else I have heard.  My room is similar in size to yours, with speakers about six feet off of the front wall.  See my avatar.

That said, when asking for impressions like this, I think that you need to consider confirmation bias.  I thought about it for several years before building these speakers, including hours spent going over the information on the Linkwitz web site.  I then spent several thousand dollars for speaker parts, crossover, amplifiers and cabling, in addition to hours building.  Anyone with that experience has a pretty strong predilection to like the results.

Good luck with your search.  Enjoy the process.

Jaytor

Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #3 on: 4 May 2020, 07:54 pm »
That said, when asking for impressions like this, I think that you need to consider confirmation bias.  I thought about it for several years before building these speakers, including hours spent going over the information on the Linkwitz web site.  I then spent several thousand dollars for speaker parts, crossover, amplifiers and cabling, in addition to hours building.  Anyone with that experience has a pretty strong predilection to like the results.

There is probably some truth to this, but I think there are pretty clear pros and cons to open baffle speakers as well.

The biggest Pro (IMHO) is the very open and airy sound stage. The speakers disappear much more readily than box speakers and the sound appears to be emanating from the entire space behind the speakers. The drivers are unencumbered from back pressure, and from back-wave reflections, which tends to allow them to operate more linearly.

Another potential advantage in many rooms is that they have reduced interaction with side walls since the front and back wave has some (potentially a lot) of cancellation to the sides, which can allow them to work better in rooms where box speakers might work poorly.

The biggest Con is that they need to be placed further out into the room. In my experience, the sound stage benefits greatly from having the speakers further into the room. I have mine positioned with the front baffle 7 1/2 ft from the front wall. Danny states that the minimum distance from the front wall is 3ft. To be honest, I haven't tried them that close. I started at about five feet and found that they got better as I pulled them out farther. I think this is somewhat dependent on the wall surface though. Much of my front wall is glass, which I've treated with drapes and four 2'x4' GIK diffusor panels standing on the floor behind the speakers.

Some people don't like the "wall of sound" that dipole speakers create. This sometimes can make it seem like instruments or voices are bigger than reality. I've found this to be very dependent on the recording. Most of the music I listen to sounds quite natural, but I could see how some listeners would prefer a more intimate sound stage.

I've been an audiophile for about 45 years and have owned a lot of different speaker systems. My current NX-Oticas are the first dynamic driver OB speakers I've owned, but I've owned a number of different Magneplanar speakers, as well as numerous conventional box speakers. I always loved the huge sound stage and lack of boxy colorations that the Magneplanars provided, but they lacked the dynamics and deep bass that I enjoyed from my dynamic speakers. For many years, I went back and forth between Maggies and dynamic box speakers because after a few years, I missed what the other offered.

The NX-Oticas and OB servo subs are the first speaker system I've owned that really delivers on all fronts.

I am fortunate to have a large, dedicated room for my 2-channel system (27' x 17' x 8'). It's not perfect, but with the acoustic treatments I've installed, it's the best room I've had for audio, and the OB speakers work wonderfully. There are going to be rooms where it's just not practical to dedicate the space for a full range, open baffle design.

The X-Statik speakers that you are considering is a hybrid design which is sealed box for the lowest frequencies and open baffle for mid-bass and up. I haven't heard these speakers personally, but I expect that this would allow them to be placed closer to the front wall without compromising or bass response as much.

Rocket_Ronny

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Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #4 on: 4 May 2020, 08:37 pm »
I built the OB-5s, the upgraded version of what you are looking at. I also owned the Carnagie Towers that Danny is selling. I would say the Carnagies were the equal pretty much to the OB-5s, which shocked me. I did find that the Carnagies actually imaged more precisely, while the OB-5s had more air.

With only 3' to work with I would get the Carnegies. I would also upgrade the caps from Danny. They are already built and have a mirror, piano black finish.



Tyson

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Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #5 on: 4 May 2020, 08:45 pm »
Box speakers will sound best in a dedicated audio room with as close to perfect acoustics as possible.  OB speakers will sound best in more real-world type rooms with less than perfect acoustics.

I use box speakers in my 2nd system and OB speakers in my primary system.  IME, the OB speakers are a lot better.

Jaytor

Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #6 on: 4 May 2020, 09:01 pm »
OB speakers will sound best in more real-world type rooms with less than perfect acoustics.

If you are saying that OB speakers are less sensitive to imperfect room acoustics, I would not disagree.

But I wouldn't say that box speakers are better than OB speakers in a good room, nor should you ignore room acoustics with OB speakers if you have the flexibility to improve them.

Early B.

Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #7 on: 4 May 2020, 09:37 pm »
I would say the Carnagies were the equal pretty much to the OB-5s, which shocked me. I did find that the Carnagies actually imaged more precisely, while the OB-5s had more air.

Yeah, it's the "air" that makes OB speakers superior because they're more realistic. Live music has plenty of "air." We're so accustomed to listening to speakers in boxes that it can be tough to determine what a natural sound sounds like.

Tyson

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Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #8 on: 4 May 2020, 11:50 pm »
If you are saying that OB speakers are less sensitive to imperfect room acoustics, I would not disagree.

But I wouldn't say that box speakers are better than OB speakers in a good room, nor should you ignore room acoustics with OB speakers if you have the flexibility to improve them.

Ah yes, I wasn't clear.  I was trying to say that box speakers can sound good in a dedicated, acoustically great room, but will sound way less good in normal, imperfect rooms.  And IME, OB speakers sound better in dedicated rooms and ESPECIALLY better in regular, acoustically imperfect rooms.

Rocket_Ronny

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Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #9 on: 5 May 2020, 12:48 am »
Quote
Yeah, it's the "air" that makes OB speakers superior because they're more realistic.

I agree, yet I actually preferred the Carnagies even though I had tons of time into building the OB5s. They were hard for me to sell on account of that.

While OBs can work better in weird rooms you have to remember in this instance the speakers in question do not have OB bass, only the mids.

Again, for me, with only 3' to work with it would be the Carnagies with upgraded caps. People have to remember it's a LOT of work to make a nice looking speaker in this caliber of build.

Rocket Ronny

nickd

Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #10 on: 5 May 2020, 05:27 am »
I have owned 4 pair of reference level OB speakers and too many conventional “box” speakers to even try to count.  Last year I went back to box speakers for one reason. Currently in my dedicated room I need more open floor for family gatherings.

Both types can sound lifelike with good design, parts quality and build quality. I would argue that typically, Open Baffle is simply the better value. I still have my X—Statik’s after all these years. They are not for sale. If you have the space and a good sub, they simply can’t be beat for the money.

I wouldn’t knock conventional box speakers or horns either. When done correctly they can indeed be as good as Open Baffle. I have box speakers in my room that have as much “air” and soundstage as any reference level OB I have ever heard. They were however not cheap and were a LOT of work for all involved (including Danny). One of Danny’s new OB designs would probably sound as good for way les money. But, they would not fit my room or lifestyle right now. Thankfully we have choices, it’s a great time to be into audio and music  :D

Remember, the speaker as well as the room are just part of a system. It takes some thought, passion, effort and yes a bit of money to put together a great system. If you don’t have tons of money, and you have enough room, the X-Statik’s are an easy win. The can be beat, but you have to spend more.

DeruDog

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Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #11 on: 5 May 2020, 11:56 am »
Thanks everyone for your observations and experiences.  It is all very helpful.  Since I am in a dedicated room, I could go either way, but I have the space to do OB.  Getting them out 7' from the wall would be a non-starter I think, just based off of the geometry of the back of my room.  I could make it to about 4' fairly easily, though, without impeding on the video side of the room's function.

Attached below is a plan I did for the room, and the current implementation is pretty similar (photo attached).  The front speakers are about 3 feet from the front wall already, and could probably come out another foot.  I'm not sure if the narrower back part of the room will be a problem.  Also, the walls and ceiling are lath and plaster and I'm not sure if that effects room resonance or reflectivity.  Any thoughts are appreciated.





hawkeyejw

Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #12 on: 5 May 2020, 12:58 pm »
I agree, yet I actually preferred the Carnagies even though I had tons of time into building the OB5s. They were hard for me to sell on account of that.

While OBs can work better in weird rooms you have to remember in this instance the speakers in question do not have OB bass, only the mids.

Again, for me, with only 3' to work with it would be the Carnagies with upgraded caps. People have to remember it's a LOT of work to make a nice looking speaker in this caliber of build.

Rocket Ronny

Moot point now, the CST-1s are sold out.

Early B.

Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #13 on: 5 May 2020, 01:45 pm »
I'd move the listening position back a couple of feet, push the TV and stand back to the wall, and bring the speakers out into the room 4 feet.

ric

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Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #14 on: 5 May 2020, 01:54 pm »
My story is having had Dunlavy speakers for almost 20 years, and I was just curious what was newer and perhaps better. What I had seen about OB speakers was intriguing, since I had never heard OB I took pair of RadioShack speakers (Lineaum tweeters) and took out the tweeter and the woofer and stuck them on a piece of plywood and liked what I heard. I then bought sight unheard a pair of Spatial Audio M3's and haven't looked back. I did upgrade the crossovers for more openness and detail.
The first thing that strikes me about the sound is 1) openness 2) soundstaging. When you are at (an electric) concert and you hear a guitar sound coming from speakers, the sound emanates and can fill the room. Ditto with OB. For orchestral work in particular, you really get a more visceral sense of the space and dynamics. Jazz sounds more live.
Of course I am biased in my opinion, and that may change if I ever were to have mega buck speaker systems, but since that won't happen, I am content to hear what I have.
As far as speaker distance, mine are about 3.5' from my 16' wall and about 4' from the sidewalls, sitting about 8' from the speaker. I two subs and a Dspeaker setup for the bass management. No problems there. Good luck!

Rocket_Ronny

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Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #15 on: 5 May 2020, 01:59 pm »
Quote
Moot point now, the CST-1s are sold out

Danny just did a video stating he had the Carnagies.

Yes, agreed, move seat back, screen back, speakers forward, and treat the wall behind the speakers and have at it with your OB fun.  Warning.... you will be sorely tempted to mov the speakers farther into the room. You have been warned, ha.

Rocket Ronny

hawkeyejw

Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #16 on: 5 May 2020, 02:10 pm »
In the comments to the Youtube video he posted that all of the pairs were sold within 3 days of the video.  :o

mlundy57

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Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #17 on: 5 May 2020, 02:16 pm »
In the comments to the Youtube video he posted that all of the pairs were sold within 3 days of the video.  :o

Looks like with YouTube, you snooze, you lose

Jmitchell3

Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #18 on: 5 May 2020, 11:09 pm »
Great video from Ron at new record day today with spatial audio’s Clayton Shaw. Good explanation about how OB is better for home audio, all else being equal. https://youtu.be/lYaYCgwmHi8

bladesmith

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Re: What are your impressions of OB speakers?
« Reply #19 on: 6 May 2020, 01:49 am »
Sweet... 8)
But, I think you need a very large woofer.
Or add a sub in a box..
 :D