Is the 20wpc Decware Torii Jr too much for Super Alnico High Output XRS?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 653 times.

Rischa

I normally run my SAHOs with a 2wpc Decware SE84UFO2, but I recently switched driving duties to a new-to-me 20wpc Torii Jr. Compared to the 2wpc amp, the TJ is a bit shouty(?) at times with the Omegas. That is, there's definitely some magic in the TJ/SAHO combo, but it can also sometimes be, uh, dynamically forward, so to speak.

One option is to try some different tubes, but I was also wondering if 20wpc is maybe just a bit too much for my Omegas.

Appreciate the input.

FullRangeMan

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 14095
  • To whom more was given more will be required.
    • Never go to a psychiatrist, adopt a straycat or dog. On the street they live only two years average.
20wpc is maybe just a bit too much for my Omegas.
Its not the case as it have volume control.

morganc

There are a few variables at play, but max output is not one of them unless you are playing it at full volume. 
Each amp has its own signature tone, dynamics, etc and some have better impedence matching with your speakers than others.   And then there are tube choices to consider as well. In other words, there are a lot of variables at play! 

Rischa

There are a few variables at play, but max output is not one of them unless you are playing it at full volume. 
Each amp has its own signature tone, dynamics, etc and some have better impedence matching with your speakers than others.   And then there are tube choices to consider as well. In other words, there are a lot of variables at play!
Makes sense. So is shoutiness (apologies for not being able to think of a better adjective) a symptom of impedance mismatch? The Torii Jr has a setting for 4ohm speakers, but maybe Decware is overestimating its abilty to drive a 4ohm speaker? I doubt it, just a thought.

seikosha

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 236
I run my SAMS with 25 watt Quicksilver Monos.  I also have a SE84UFO.  The Quicksilver's sound exceptional in my setup.  As morganc said, there are a lot of variables at play in system synergy.

nature boy

Short answer is no. Roll some tubes, try some reissued KT66 Gold Lion power tubes and a good 7DJ8 input tubes instead of the Russian 6N23P's. This combination should work better for you.

NB

Rischa

Short answer is no. Roll some tubes, try some reissued KT66 Gold Lion power tubes and a good 7DJ8 input tubes instead of the Russian 6N23P's. This combination should work better for you.

NB

Thanks, I'll definitely look into those tubes.

guf

maybe the design of your 2w amp is more pleasing at playing the first watt than your other amp?  the majority info out there tells you need more power to cover the dynamic range. i've spent a ton of money trying more powerful amps because it what i'm supposed to do then in the end i find that my 2 watt amps are whats best to me. 

Photon46

Also, if you haven't already done so, be sure to experiment with lowering the volume controls on your Torii and using more output from your preamp. This definitely affects the sound of amplifier. Additionally, as the manual states, the 6n1p tube will give the warmest sound in your amplifier if you need to tame brightness. I own a ZenTorii II and the choice of tubes greatly affects the end result in that amp. I would expect the same with the Torii Jr. as well. In my Zen Torii, I have found the 6n1p to tame brightness more than the 6n23p.

Tom Bombadil

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 130
There is no such thing as too much power.   Sure, one could turn up the volume so loud that you blow your speakers, but even then if you tried to do the same thing with a lower powered amp you would destroy the speakers with clipping.

I know people running 100dB+ speakers with 300 watt solid state amps.  They say the transient peaks are faster, more dynamic and cleaner with high power amps. 

There is a video from Harbeth where it shows their speakers being driven with amps delivering 800 to 1000 watts.  Surprisingly the meters showed peaks of where the amp's output went to over 500 watts. 

Generally even when speakers can be driven adequately with 2-3 watt amps, they will sound better with 20-30 watts - given amps of equal quality.

rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 4879
  • Rollo Audio Consulting -
There is no such thing as too much power.   Sure, one could turn up the volume so loud that you blow your speakers, but even then if you tried to do the same thing with a lower powered amp you would destroy the speakers with clipping.

I know people running 100dB+ speakers with 300 watt solid state amps.  They say the transient peaks are faster, more dynamic and cleaner with high power amps. 

There is a video from Harbeth where it shows their speakers being driven with amps delivering 800 to 1000 watts.  Surprisingly the meters showed peaks of where the amp's output went to over 500 watts. 

Generally even when speakers can be driven adequately with 2-3 watt amps, they will sound better with 20-30 watts - given amps of equal quality.


  Agree with Tom. It is not the power. Something else.

charles

jmolsberg

It’s all about the synergy

nature boy

Before buying tubes try repositioning the speakers. Don't point them directly at your sitting position, aim them about 1' outside your ears. This will have the effect of reducing treble response a tad. This is how I listen to my Decware SAHO's.

HK

Rischa

Before buying tubes try repositioning the speakers. Don't point them directly at your sitting position, aim them about 1' outside your ears. This will have the effect of reducing treble response a tad. This is how I listen to my Decware SAHO's.

HK

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have my SAHOs positioned similarly to tame the highs. The shoutiness isn't really a treble issue, it's more like a volume modulation problem, if that makes sense. Sometimes when there's a dynamic peak, the music sounds overly explosive and a little compressed. This is only on some recordings, so it could just be that the little Zen amp is more forgiving and the Torii is letting me hear more flaws in the recording. I admit I'm still getting to know the Torri Jr's quirks.

NoDisco

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 10
I have had success with all types of amps with these speakers. Manley monos, solid state and Musical paradise all sound good. The MP amps are hard to beat for the money and give my manleys a serious run on the omegas.

FullRangeMan

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 14095
  • To whom more was given more will be required.
    • Never go to a psychiatrist, adopt a straycat or dog. On the street they live only two years average.
Short answer is no. Roll some tubes, try some reissued KT66 Gold Lion power tubes and a good 7DJ8 input tubes instead of the Russian 6N23P's. This combination should work better for you.

NB
Other tubes to try are 6N1P and 6N2P.

FullRangeMan

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 14095
  • To whom more was given more will be required.
    • Never go to a psychiatrist, adopt a straycat or dog. On the street they live only two years average.
maybe the design of your 2w amp is more pleasing at playing the first watt than your other amp?  the majority info out there tells you need more power to cover the dynamic range. i've spent a ton of money trying more powerful amps because it what i'm supposed to do then in the end i find that my 2 watt amps are whats best to me.
Unfortunately the Torii is Push-Pull, not Single Ended as the SE84 or the Rachel EL34. Other unsuited features are Torii use 4 output tubes which have to be matched since there is no Bias adjusting, so when one or more output tubes are not close paired sound quality suffer.

opnly bafld

Other unsuited features are Torii use 4 output tubes which have to be matched since there is no Bias adjusting, so when one or more output tubes are not close paired sound quality suffer.

I don't understand this at all and it keeps me from even considering buying one.
In the owners manual he makes it sound like it is really hard to adjust bias for individual tubes.  :scratch:


Rischa

The Torri Jr has a single bias pot for all 4 output tubes. From what I understand, the TJ was originally designed to be self biasing (or have a set bias?), but Steve Deckert decided at the last minute to add the bias adjustment. I can't remember the reasoning.

FullRangeMan

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 14095
  • To whom more was given more will be required.
    • Never go to a psychiatrist, adopt a straycat or dog. On the street they live only two years average.
There is no individual Bias adjusting so it needs 4 matched EL34.
So a second prob is what the Torii owner must do when 1 EL34 die?
a) change only the dead tube and stay with the amp unpaired.
b) change all the 4 tubes to keep the amp matched at higher cost.
c) what to do with 3 used tubes?