[WarrenHH]

Hi folks..  I am running two RM40's for mains TRT caps etc. I am using an LRC for the center channel. It won't quite keep up with the RM40's and keeps bottoming out.
I would like to replace it with something that would be more in line with the mains.
My room is configured as a theater with a stage, and there is lots of real estate (stage) to put a large center speaker. IT would have to be below screen level.
I thought about putting in a third RM40 horizontally, but thought that might not be optimum for a ribbon type speaker.
What do you guys thing would be the best solution/replacement?

Thanks

Warren

[Brian Cheney]

Upgrade the LRC to the Megawoofers ($190pr plus shipping) and it won't bottom out.  Cheapest solution short of the RM30C.

B

[zybar]

Hi folks..  I am running two RM40's for mains TRT caps etc. I am using an LRC for the center channel. It won't quite keep up with the RM40's and keeps bottoming out.
I would like to replace it with something that would be more in line with the mains.
My room is configured as a theater with a stage, and there is lots of real estate (stage) to put a large center speaker. IT would have to be below screen level.
I thought about putting in a third RM40 horizontally, but thought that might not be optimum for  ...

Why not skip the center channel?

I run my RM 40's without a center and feel that the added cost associated with the center channel is not justifiable.  Take that money and plow it into something else and never look back.

George

[John Casler]

Hi folks..  I am running two RM40's for mains TRT caps etc. I am using an LRC for the center channel. It won't quite keep up with the RM40's and keeps bottoming out.
I would like to replace it with something that would be more in line with the mains.
My room is configured as a theater with a stage, and there is lots of real estate (stage) to put a large center speaker. IT would have to be below screen level.
I thought about putting in a third RM40 horizontally, but thought that might not be optimum for a ribbon type speaker.
What do you guys thing would be the best solution/replacement?
...

Hi Warren,

By all means, please "DO" use the RM40 horizontally!!  My only "caveat" would be to "angle" the speaker to fire directly at the general listening height.

One other problem would be if it is placed too low and you have "second row" seating.  That might block some information.

Your second choice would be the RM30C, which is quite robust and would have the same considerations.

And as Brian mentioned, if your primary concern is the woofers "bottoming" you have two choices:

1) Get the new Megawoofers as suggested by BiG B
2) Set the Center channel to "Small" and that will restrict the LF info sent to it.

I have some clients who do the "phantom" channel too, and find it satisfactory, but for me, in Home Theater,  the "MOST IMPORTANT" speaker is the center speaker.

5.1 Movies are "specifically" mixed to have a center speaker and the sound needs to be further processed to work as a phantom (it is not like stereo which is designed to be heard this way)

So, I generally advise people who are serious about HT, to get the best center channel speaker they can, based on that.

If you and your SO are the only ones watching a film and you always sit in the dead center sweet spot, then the phantom could work for you.

Wouldn't take too much for you to see if it works in your case.  Just reset your processor.

If it doesn't  

1) RM40 (man what an impressive HT that would be!!! What SOUNDSTAGE Width you would have       )

2) RM30C

3) LRC w/megas

All would work quite well

[zybar]

John,

We will have to agree to disagree on the center channel...

I consider myself pretty serious (if you look at my associated gear it is pretty obvious) and yet I still CHOOSE to not use a center channel.  My room is setup for six people with three in the front row and three in the second row.   When I have a packed house, nobody feels cheated.

Of course with the Tact in play these days, things are even better than before.

Anyway, I simply recommend that people listen for themselves and decide.  Don't feel that you must go a certain route.

George

[ctviggen]

Well, I have to disagree with George and agree with John. (By the way, George, I'm sending you those connectors tomorrow -- I had misplaced them and found them this morning.)  The RM30C is phenomenal as compared to my previous Linn center channel (which I thought was excellent, by the way).  The bass is incredible from that speaker.   When I turn on music DVDs, the bass from the center channel and actually the entire frequency range comes through.   I simply would not do without a center channel, as it does the vast majority of duty in movies.  Last night, I watched the third series in the Matrix movies, and I was quite impressed with the system in general, but I continue to be impressed with the center channel.  When I put in the Blue Man Group DVD, for instance, the amount of bass coming out the RM30c is astounding.  

There are, nonetheless, major differences in my and George's systems. In my system, I have a RPTV and matching rack between my two RM40s.  I have my RM40s toed in quite a bit and sit nearfield.  My RM40s are 8 feet apart and I sit 8 feet from the front of an RM40.  The RM40s are toed in to cross in front of the center position by about a foot.  I can't remember whether I have the RM30C crossed over at 60 or 50 Hz, but I think it's the latter.  My RM40s are run full range and also supplemented 50Hz and below with two Largers driven by their own amp.  I'm using an NHT X2 crossover that spits sub info (center and rear less than 50Hz and the LFE) to both the Largers.  For movies, I have an SVS sub that's placed about half way into the room and run out of phase with the Largers.  George has his RM40s wider, less toed in, and sits much farther back than I do.  In my system, if I sit to the side, there is no way using the RM40s that I could hear center channel information, as the RM40s are too toed in.  

In my system, there's no way I'd do without a center channel.

[meilankev]

Warren,

Depending on how your room is set up, my answer will be different.  In essence it is possible for both George and John to be correct.  

If you have nothing between your front speakers (either Front Projector or a hang-on-the-wall flat panel), my answer is different than if you have a big RPTV or equipment rack between your fron speakers along the front wall.

In the former situation, there is no Center Channel that you can buy that will make as smooth of a transition (panning from left to center to right) as will just two stereo speakers.  This is true for 2-channel music, multi-channel music, or DVD movies.  That's right, not even a horizontal RM40 added into the mix would improve on it.  

The only exception to this rule would be if you have a very wide listening area (more than 3 across).  Then for those sitting on the outer edges of the listening area, a Center Speaker would help lock down the center image (for dialog and such).

++++++++

Again, if you have some large item(s) between your main speakers along the front wall, all bets are off.

Kevin

[John Casler]

Warren,

Depending on how your room is set up, my answer will be different.  In essence it is possible for both George and John to be correct.  

...

Hi Kevin,

You were one of the VMPS users who I was refering to who like to go "Commando"      in the Center  

I agree

Both George and John (me ) are correct.  The key is trying the set up without center, and if it doesn't give the desired result, then add the center.

Speaker placement, convergence angle of incidence, room shape, listening position, and what is between your speakers, have all been mentioned as "factors" that may affect the "center image".

[BrunoB]

Upgrade the LRC to the Megawoofers ($190pr plus shipping) and it won't bottom out.  Cheapest solution short of the RM30C.

B

English-audiophile question: what does bottom out mean and what do you hear when it happens? I am asking because I heard some strange noises (loud "tong") while watching LOTR Return of the king.

[ctviggen]

Since I'm home nursing a cold, I set up my system both with and without the center channel.  I used The Matrix, from the lobby scene through the helicopter crash, and The Lord of The Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, opening scene.   I think that having a center channel far outweighs, in my system, not having a center channel.  In The Matrix for instance, the voices just not were as powerful or "centered" (for lack of a better word), and pans from right, through center, to left (or vice versa) were lacking.  In LOTR, it seemed as if the front R/L had too much to do without the center channel.  It's the first time I've ever heard my RM40s sound strained (I was playing it loud, though -- -15dB on DTS; that's very loud in my room).  With the center channel, you could hear her voice perfectly while music and effects played in the R/L channels.  

Even if you don't have a RPTV between your R/L speakers, if you have your R/L speakers set far apart, I would think that panning would be seriously hindered by not having a center channel.  Regardless, should you decided to go without a center channel, I'd take some time to make that decision and perhaps borrow a center (even one that doesn't match) to see what happens.

[flintstone]

I have listened with and with out a center channel many times...while with out sounds great, and in my system does not cause off-balance sound for any listener...with center still wins every time.

Vocal reproduction is much more life-like IMO and has better focus. Of course a poor quality center (which we are not talking about here)  that is a poor match with the mains is another story.

Dave

[WarrenHH]

Well, I really appreciate the input from you guys!!

My roon is more or less 19x24. It slopes in 2' from back to front in width, and slopes down 1' back to front in the ceiling.

There is nothing between the speakers, but when I change my processor setup from center channel to none, I notice a big difference.

I am leaning towards adding another RM40 in the middle, I was just worried that I was being a knucklehead in using an RM40 horizontally.

Thanks for all the input!!  I love to listen to those in the know.

Warren