[Rocket_Ronny]

I am not a subscriber to Religiously following the speaker positioning rules from the "Experts". Instead, I move things around, actually too much, until I meet my goals.

In this case, I inserted a new amp, the Musical Paradise 501, into the system and wanted to change the speaker placement. So I end up with the speaker plane about 4.5' from my ears, 7.5' apart from inside edges, and 9.5' off the back wall. BG Neo 10's point to the outside of my shoulders. Apox. 10 degrees off axis of my ears, usually my preferred angle with most speakers, 10-15 degrees.

Sound crazy to you, well have a listen.

https://youtu.be/zUxOBPcw5uY

https://youtu.be/KdBHXtTEFq0

Rocket Ronny

[Tyson]

Nah man, I believe it.  If you have a very coherent speaker, you can do stuff like that.  I'm only about 6.5 feet from my speakers.  And generally the further you can get the speakers from any boundary, the better.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Well, you can join the loony, tunny, club as well, ha.

Rocket Ronny

[fridays]

Videos are private?

[smargo]

I am not a subscriber to Religiously following the speaker positioning rules from the "Experts". Instead, I move things around, actually too much, until I meet my goals.


Sound crazy to you, well have a listen.

https://youtu.be/zUxOBPcw5uY

https://youtu.be/KdBHXtTEFq0

Rocket Ronny

when i try and open the video - i get

"video unavailble - video private"

[Rocket_Ronny]

Sorry about that. I seem to get Private and Unlisted mixed up. Try the videos now.

Rocket Ronny

[FullRangeMan]

Interesting seems it is a severe toe in.

[smargo]

OK - now it works - is the toe-in the difference in the sound?

because i cant look at the empty rack and the window anymore

[rajacat]

A little OT but it appears you like the MP 501. Is that the case? It's a lot of amp for the $'s.

[Rocket_Ronny]

seems it is a severe toe in.

Yup, what does that matter? The farther the spread the speakers the more toe in you need.

is the toe-in the difference in the sound?

I wasn't trying to change the sound but change the sound stage. Many amps sound stage a bit different, so I made some adjustments. The toe in was a natural result of bringing the speakers closer in order to get a wider sound stage. Speakers are completely gone, might as well not be in the room.

A little OT but it appears you like the MP 501. Is that the case? It's a lot of amp for the $'s.

Over the top, well thank you. I like the extraordinary and I am getting extraordinary results.     The 501 is doing what I had hoped for, 3D individual images. I also changed the e.q. I was using to compensate for the Neo 10 driver. I think it's great value.

Rocket Ronny

[Russell Dawkins]

So I'm wondering:
- Is there any difference in the set up between video 1 and video 2, or is it just different music?

- What microphones and configuration are you using? The phantom centre is pretty solid on my monitors (HEDD Type 20s and Eve Audio SC 203s with subs).

- Do you ever use a mono signal when fine tuning speaker positioning?

[timind]

How bout a 360 view of the setup? I'm curious about how much distance from listening position to wall behind.

Could you have moved your seat forward instead moving speakers to get same effect? I normally sit about 8-9 feet from the plane of my speakers, if I move forward 3 or 4 feet, I get a totally different perspective. My speakers are 6 feet from wall behind them.

You have definitely hit upon something though, speaker placement can change system sound much more than any other tweak.

[poseidonsvoice]

RR,

I don’t find your method radical at all. Been doing it for years with constant and controlled directivity loudspeaker designs. I discussed it with Ron Brenay of NRD one afternoon. He was so tickled with the change in performance of some of his loudspeakers that he made a video.

http://www.libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup%20of%20WG%20Speakers.pdf

Best,
Anand.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Is there any difference in the set up between video 1 and video 2, or is it just different music?

No difference in set up. Both recorded one after the other on my iphone 11. I do have a male voice in and out of phase I sometimes use to check center fill. Mostly just listen to audio tracks for set up. I find the Super V speakers to be one of the best I have encountered regarding a solid center fill. Even with me disconnecting the tweeter and using the BG Neo 10 instead.

Here are a couple more tracks with a Xindak XA 6950 amp and speakers 6' away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocJnvay2c7Y&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70OdxoCCY4w&feature=youtu.be

How bout a 360 view of the setup? I'm curious about how much distance from listening position to wall behind.

I was going to pan around, sorry. My chair is backed up to stair railing. Wall behind me is 6' away.


Anad - thanks for the link, will check it out.


Rocket Ronny

[guf]

yeah this came up a few months ago and i tried it with my klipsch speakers and have been totally happy.  The extreme, EXTREME toe in, like described for Anand 's link,  i felt didn't work as well for me  but mine are still 45 degrees and pointed infront of me by a couple feet. I have done more simlar near field, with other speakers like RR is describing and also loved it.  Its great we have all these free options and discoveries that provide variety.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Myself, I do not like speakers toed in so they cross in front of me. I feel it kills sound stage air and realism. For most speakers I like them crossing behind me a few feet.

For GedLee Nathans I owned, with their large wave guide, crossing in front of me was the best. Only speaker that worked for me that way. The Volent speakers I had were best pointing straight ahead. Everything else was best 10-15 degrees off axis to my ears, crossing behind me.

Rocket Ronny

[poseidonsvoice]

Myself, I do not like speakers toed in so they cross in front of me. I feel it kills sound stage air and realism. For most speakers I like them crossing behind me a few feet.

For GedLee Nathans I owned, with their large wave guide, crossing in front of me was the best. Only speaker that worked for me that way. The Volent speakers I had were best pointing straight ahead. Everything else was best 10-15 degrees off axis to my ears, crossing behind me.

Rocket Ronny

+1.

Experimentation is best, and if there is anything RR's thread shows, it's terribly important to do! With my current speakers, the extreme toe in, along with diffusors on the my rear side walls (where the seated position is) along with diffusors on the back wall is awesome. I get exacting imaging PLUS the deep enveloping soundstaging that OB's have (like the NX Otica's I have heard). It's a win, win, but experimentation is a must. I don't sit in the near field though. My listening position is about 11- 12 feet from the speakers (and the speakers are about 10-11 feet apart) while the speakers themselves are about 5 feet from the front wall with the rear wall about 8 feet behind me. Add 4 subs, measure, and voila, MAGIC!

I'll need to get an aerial view/picture of the setup at some point...but here is a rough sketch.



Best,
Anand.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Experiment is the key.

I have met so many, including audio sales people, that are locked into some expert theory on speaker placement and don't deviate from that. Reminds me of when I would not use the tone controls on my integrated amps, as that was audio heresy. But I was a kid then and have an excuse, ha. 

Rocket Ronny

[mr_bill]

I heard a set of bookshelf’s set up like this one time and the soundstage was amazingly deep.

[SoCalWJS]

Various forms of Nearfield listening can be a fun Experiment. I like it from time to time, but it starts to feel a bit like wearing a HUGE pair of Headphones at times. Interesting. Fun. Parts of the sound field are great...

...but I end up feeling like I am missing a few things and I go back to more conventional setups, Every now and then I move my chair forward a ways into the nearfield position.