[Craig B]

I’d like to hear your thoughts on the easiest way to play downloaded DSD files.

Please keep it in layman’s terms as much as possible – I’m an old guy who is frankly flummoxed by the technical details of digital recording and reproduction, and networking. But I’ve had SACD players in my system for over 15 years, and I’m aware of the sonic benefits of DSD. My hope is that with the equipment I have, it could be as simple as purchasing the file, putting it on a portable storage device like a thumb drive or small external hard drive, and plugging that into the USB port of one of these three DACs in my system:

PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell Preamp/DAC: rear panel USB B and I2S input ports (I believe both support DSD 128 DoP)
Marantz SA8005 SACD player: rear panel USB B input port (supports DSD, but the provided front panel USB A doesn’t)
Bluesound Node 2i: rear panel USB A input port (no idea what it supports; the documentation is skimpy)

The Node is connected via wifi to my computer in another part of the house. It acts as the music server. I know I could get a second computer to put in the listening room, but that’s an expense and hassle I don’t need. I was hoping this could be done via the old-school “sneaker net” method of putting files on transportable media and, well, transporting them.

Any thoughts? I've gotten some feedback that the Gain Cell, while supporting the file format, is incapable of looking for and "pulling" data from an attached storage device, that instead, that data needs to be "pushed" to it, something passive storage media can't do.

If it turns out this can't be done without additional equipment, I'm OK - I simply won't buy any downloads.

Thanks in advance.

[avta]

I believe the Node will play DSD. (https://support.bluos.net/hc/en-us/articles/360019447014-Playing-DSD-Files-in-BluOS ) If you have a software player such as Audirvana on your computer( although there are many others depending on what computer operating system you have, that will play DSD.) You would play the file on your computer and send it over your wireless network to the Node to play. If you use a Mac computer there's a free program called Vox that plays DSD. Did I understand you sufficiently?

[Craig B]

I believe the Node will play DSD. (https://support.bluos.net/hc/en-us/articles/360019447014-Playing-DSD-Files-in-BluOS ) If you have a software player such as Audirvana on your computer( although there are many others depending on what computer operating system you have, that will play DSD.) You would play the file on your computer and send it over your wireless network to the Node to play. If you use a Mac computer there's a free program called Vox that plays DSD. Did I understand you sufficiently?

You understood, thanks. I see in that Bluesound article you linked that the DSD files are converted to FLAC by the BlueOS software before they're sent to the Node. Does that degrade them in any way? There's my digital ignorance on display.

Speaking of ignorance, the next step in that process has already proven troublesome for me - I haven't been able to get my Node to recognize and connect to my iMac over the network. But that's another issue for another time or thread, though it's one of the reasons I was hoping DSD files could simply be stored on a drive that could then plug into one of my DACs for playback. In the 6 or 7 months I've had the Node all I've been able to do with it is access internet streaming content (radio, Tidal, Qobuz, etc.), and have my iMac push iTunes files to it via AirPlay. And even if iTunes supported higher-res material, it's my understanding that AirPlay limits resolution to standard redbook specs. I say that's "all" I've been able to do, but that much has been pretty good, and a lot of fun, despite a lot of dropouts when using Tidal and Qobuz (Bluesound says I need to talk to my cable company about changing the router channel to one with less traffic. They're awful to work with, so I've been avoiding it, plus I have no faith it won't screw something else up).

I have a Pioneer N-50 network player that was retired when I got the Node, and it was able to pull hi-def tracks from HD Tracks off of an attached thumb drive (it's been so long I don't recall their format, but they aren't DSD). The fact that I can't seem to do that with DSD files on any of three newer devices that claim to support DSD (and that have USB ports) is proving a little frustrating.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try to find some time to get with the Bluesound support people to trouble shoot the network connection. I'm pretty sure I've done everything that's listed in their tech document on it. (They're also frustrating me by telling me that when I get the connection working, it will only read content from the iMac's internal drive, and not the external USB hard drive where I keep my iTunes library. It seems like it's always something.)

[avta]

A few thoughts: Flac will not degrade the sound. What version of the Node do you have? If your Mac is not connecting to the Node check two things. First go to System Preferences ( the gear box icon in your tool bar at the bottom of your screen usually ). Open the Sound icon and see if the Node is selected when you select Output. If the Node doesn't show up then I would suspect the Mac is not connected to it. Second, open Applications and scroll down to Utilities and look forAudio Midi. Open it and again in the Output section see if the Node is selected there. Both of these should be chosen to get the Node to play from the Mac. Also be sure your Mac Operating system is using the current version. If you're not sure how to check that let us know. Hang in there you'll get it.

[witchdoctor]

Plug a thumb drive into the back of the marantz, check page 42 in the manual which you can download at marantz website

[Craig B]

A few thoughts: Flac will not degrade the sound. What version of the Node do you have? If your Mac is not connecting to the Node check two things. First go to System Preferences ( the gear box icon in your tool bar at the bottom of your screen usually ). Open the Sound icon and see if the Node is selected when you select Output. If the Node doesn't show up then I would suspect the Mac is not connected to it. Second, open Applications and scroll down to Utilities and look forAudio Midi. Open it and again in the Output section see if the Node is selected there. Both of these should be chosen to get the Node to play from the Mac. Also be sure your Mac Operating system is using the current version. If you're not sure how to check that let us know. Hang in there you'll get it.

It's the 2i. I'll take a look at this when I get home. Thanks. Fingers crossed.

[Craig B]

Plug a thumb drive into the back of the marantz, check page 42 in the manual which you can download at marantz website

That part of the manual discusses the front panel USB port, which only supports WMA, MP3, WAV and AAC. The rear panel requires a USB B connection, which I'll try when I get an adapter (and a DSD file to try out). But just today I saw there are several references throughout the manual that say the unit won't play copy protected files on memory devices and data CDs, and that files downloaded from "internet pay sites" are copy protected. I don't know if that includes commercially available DSD downloads or not.

Thanks.

[Tyson]

Craig man, you are making this all way too difficult.  Here's the easy way to get DSD music on to your system.

Download some DSD files to your iMac.  Maybe create a folder called "DSD Music" and put it all in there.
Plug a USB cable from your iMac to your Gain Cell.
Download Roon or Audirvana to your iMac.
During setup, tell Roon or Audirvana where your DSD Music folder is.
Open Audirvana or Roon and your music will show up in the interface.  It will also be searchable from the program's search bar.

The other cool thing is Roon has a remote app that you can load to your iPad or phone, and you can use that to control all the music being played.

[Craig B]

Craig man, you are making this all way too difficult.  Here's the easy way to get DSD music on to your system.

Download some DSD files to your iMac.  Maybe create a folder called "DSD Music" and put it all in there.
Plug a USB cable from your iMac to your Gain Cell.
Download Roon or Audirvana to your iMac.
During setup, tell Roon or Audirvana where your DSD Music folder is.
Open Audirvana or Roon and your music will show up in the interface.  It will also be searchable from the program's search bar.

The other cool thing is Roon has a remote app that you can load to your iPad or phone, and you can use that to control all the music being played.

No question that would make it really easy. Except the iMac is in the office, which is in a completely different part of the house. 

If I can solve my secondary issue of not getting the Node to connect to the iMac, that might solve my DSD problem. We'll see.

[Craig B]

First go to System Preferences ( the gear box icon in your tool bar at the bottom of your screen usually ). Open the Sound icon and see if the Node is selected when you select Output. If the Node doesn't show up then I would suspect the Mac is not connected to it.

The Node is there, but only as an AirPlay connection. Besides the AirPlay connections, there's the computer's internal speakers (not selected) and the external DAC and speakers that are connected to the computer (showing as selected).

Second, open Applications and scroll down to Utilities and look forAudio Midi. Open it and again in the Output section see if the Node is selected there. Both of these should be chosen to get the Node to play from the Mac.

The Node doesn't appear there at all.

Also be sure your Mac Operating system is using the current version. If you're not sure how to check that let us know. Hang in there you'll get it.

The OS is Mojave 10.14.6. It says Catalina 10.15.3 is available, so I guess I can update that. My current version is far from old, so I don't know if it'll make a difference, but I'll give it a shot.

[avta]

Would you mind describing your system in more detail? You’ve mentioned your iMac, preamp/dac and Node. You haven’t mentioned your amplifier or speakers and their locations relative to one another. The typical arrangement, if there is such a thing, would be to have your computer using a software player as a server as you mentioned then have the computer connected to your dac via wired or wireless connection. In your case the dac/preamp would be connected to an amplifier to which your speakers are connected. Would you mind providing that information?

[Craig B]

Would you mind describing your system in more detail? You’ve mentioned your iMac, preamp/dac and Node. You haven’t mentioned your amplifier or speakers and their locations relative to one another. The typical arrangement, if there is such a thing, would be to have your computer using a software player as a server as you mentioned then have the computer connected to your dac via wired or wireless connection. In your case the dac/preamp would be connected to an amplifier to which your speakers are connected. Would you mind providing that information?

Sure, no problem.

The whole system consists of equipment in 3 rooms, all on the house wifi network. None of the three rooms can be conveniently connected to any of the others by cable, whether LAN or USB. They're all in different parts of the house, and in some cases on different floors.

In the office:
The "music server" is my iMac. I don't recall the generation designation or its processor, but it was purchased new last summer, and last night its OS was updated to Catalina 10.15.3. It has the BlueOS software installed on it, and Qobuz and Tidal's desktop app, too. Instead of using the iMac's internal speakers for its own audio output, it's sent digitally to an A.R.T. USB Dual Pre and from there to a pair of M-Audio powered speakers. It sounds OK, but nothing nice enough to waste a hi-res download purchase on.

In the living room:
This is where the network modem/gateway/router is, along with the primary cable box/DVR, the TV, and a Marantz NR 1508 AVR. Besides a cheap Blu-Ray player attached, it also has an Apple TV connected to it, and both the receiver and Apple TV can access the iMac's iTunes library via AirPlay. Speakers in the living room are just little Cambridge Audio satellites and a single separate woofer. (Home theater is not a big priority for me.)

In the listening room:
VPI Aries Scout, Ortofon 2M Bronze cart, through a Channel Islands Audio PEQ-1 Mk II phono preamp
Marantz SA8005 SACD player (analog connection to the Stellar, the only way the unit will read DSD)
Rega Planet CD player (used as transport only; digital connection to the Stellar's DAC)
Node 2i, connected to the network via wifi, and analog out to the Stellar (the only way to fully decode MQA)
PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/preamp
Emotiva BasX A-300 power amp
PS Audio P-500 AC regenerator, PS Audio Ultimate Outlet and PS Audio Juice Bar
Magnepan .7 loudspeakers
Hsu Research VTF2 Mk2 sub

As I said, the Node can play my iTunes library, but only via AirPlay, not from seeing it as a connected file server. I've followed Bluesound support's connection instructions and either it doesn't work, or I don't understand networking enough to get it right (my money's on the latter). But even though it can't connect to the server, the Node still has network access to the internet, so I can use it for full hi-res Tidal and Qobuz playing. To do that, I have to go through the BlueOS app on my mobile devices, and when I do there are times when dropouts are so bad it isn't worth trying (to be fair, there are also weeks at a time when there are no dropouts). If I use either the Tidal or Qobuz apps instead, I've never had a dropout, but going that route means the content is fed to the Node via AirPlay, so resolution is only CD quality, regardless of the resolution of the file I'm accessing.

That's pretty much all I can tell you about it. I know there are people to whom all of these tech issues are as familiar as the back of their hand, but I'm not one. I come from the generation where the most complex things you had to do were set up a cartridge in a tonearm, and position the speakers. The rest was all PnP, before PnP was even a term. 

[avta]

Thanks for the detailed information. I've had similar problems with an iMac trying to get it to show up as connected to my integrated amp. Try looking in your Mac's internet connections. At the top of your desktop screen there should be an internet icon that looks like a fan. Open that to see if the Node shows up. If it doesn't show up try a software scanner to see the Node's IP address. I've used this free program (http://10base-t.com/macintosh-software/ip-scanner/ ) Once you have the IP address of the Node try to add it as another player using your Blue OS phone app.

[Tyson]

The Node 2i I am pretty sure converts everything internally to 24/96.  So you can send it DSD but it'll convert it to 24/96 before sending it to your DAC.  It will "work" in the sense that you can get the music to play, but it won't be DSD by the time it gets there. 

I found a used Auralic Aries with the Femto clocks for $900 and it does a fabulous job streaming real DSD.  It also works great with Roon (which I highly recommend). 

[Craig B]

The Node 2i I am pretty sure converts everything internally to 24/96.  So you can send it DSD but it'll convert it to 24/96 before sending it to your DAC.  It will "work" in the sense that you can get the music to play, but it won't be DSD by the time it gets there.   

If true, that pretty much removes any impetus to get the Node to view the iMac as a file server. While it would be nice to have everything working as advertised, as a practical matter it won't make much difference - everything in the iTunes library is redbook, so it doesn't matter that it only gets to the main system via AirPlay.

It also means I probably won't be able to play DSD files at all without buying additional equipment, whether another (or different) streamer or just another computer for use in the listening room, and that's not happening. I've spent enough in the last 6 months, upgrading my cartridge, phono preamp, preamp, amp and speakers. It'll be a long time before I can justify anything else, especially when the result is a marginal improvement over the sound I already have and think is pretty great as it is. I can just limit any future DSD purchases to SACDs instead of downloads.

[avta]

According to Blue Sound DSD files are not altered.

[Tyson]

According to Blue Sound DSD files are not altered.

That's saying that they will create a PCM copy in order to play it back.  PCM is not DSD. 

[Craig B]

That's saying that they will create a PCM copy in order to play it back.  PCM is not DSD.

I've wondered about that, too. I don't know if this is the same thing as the Stellar Gain Cell DAC's playing of DSD via what they refer to as DoP, but this is what its manual says about it:

" DoP (DSD over PCM) is a standard allowing single rate DSD to travel over USB and I²S. Currently, to send DSD over USB, the DSD files must first be converted to DoP standards to travel this route. It is possible to send DSD files (without conversion to DoP) over Stellar's I²S inputs. Most programs, such as Roon and JRiver Media Center, will automatically convert DSD files to the DoP standard on the fly. There are no sonic penalties for conversion to DoP as the raw DSD data is unaffected by the process."

[Tyson]

I've wondered about that, too. I don't know if this is the same thing as the Stellar Gain Cell DAC's playing of DSD via what they refer to as DoP, but this is what its manual says about it:

" DoP (DSD over PCM) is a standard allowing single rate DSD to travel over USB and I²S. Currently, to send DSD over USB, the DSD files must first be converted to DoP standards to travel this route. It is possible to send DSD files (without conversion to DoP) over Stellar's I²S inputs. Most programs, such as Roon and JRiver Media Center, will automatically convert DSD files to the DoP standard on the fly. There are no sonic penalties for conversion to DoP as the raw DSD data is unaffected by the process."

Yep, DoP is a "tunnel" that lets DSD pass unhindered.  Streamers like the Auralic Aries allow for this.  The Node 2i does not.

[WGH]

We may be reaching the point where the Node2i is the problem and not the solution.

I use JRiver to play DSD files so why not use JRiver and the JRemote Mac app on an iPad? Well the explanation why not becomes a word salad.

JRiver uses DLNA. It appears that the Node2i doesn't use UPnP or DLNA, it uses Samba, the two different protocols don't communicate to each other.

There may be a work around using one of the JRiver Id models. The IdPi is $115, wonder if it has a HDMI output so node2i can be used at the same time by switching inputs. I have never seen one but it is cheaper than an Auralic.
https://jriver.com/Id/

Hard wired only? Documentation is skimpy. Plug it into a router?