Poor Man's GR-Research Line Force.

Rocket_Ronny · « **on:** 12 Mar 2020, 01:07 am »

Here is a video of my poor man's Line Force. I explain the setup and have a sound sample. Speakers completely disappear, as do the walls. Fantastic sound stage for a small room. Use head phones or your audio system. Will add more sound samples later. Too busy listening, ha. BTW. my dad made the center stand you see. He spun all the dowels by hand on his lathe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqzB6JkDBA8

Rocket Ronny

jmpsmash · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 01:19 am »

it says video is private.

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 01:26 am »

Quote from: jmpsmash on 12 Mar 2020, 01:19 am

it says video is private.

+1

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 01:30 am »

Try it now.

Rocket Ronny

jmpsmash · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 01:33 am »

Tyson · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 02:00 am »

Very clever man! I bet it does sound quite good

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 02:56 am »

Ha. Well, I wanted the impact of the Super V with the electrostatic clarity of the BGs. I am sorry I questioned it before, as BG Neo 10 is electrostatic in clarity and imaging, even better than most planers perhaps.

This set up will do until the rest of the Super Mini kit arrives. I will still use the P Audio mid driver up to 400 hz or so. That way I have a high eff. driver pounding out the music fundamental frequencies. Have to say it's pretty killer given what it is. Just need to add some Single Ended Tube Amp Magic and Sha-Zham.

Rocket Ronny

Tyson · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 04:18 am »

Quote from: Rocket_Ronny on 12 Mar 2020, 02:56 am

Ha. Well, I wanted the impact of the Super V with the electrostatic clarity of the BGs. I am sorry I questioned it before as BG Neo 10 is electrostic in clarity and imaging, even better imaging than most planers perhaps.

This set up will do until I get the rest of the Super Minis. I will do the same however, with using the P Audio mid driver up to 400 hz or so. That way I have a high eff. driver pounding out the music fundamental frequencies. Have to say it's pretty killer given what it is.

Rocket Ronny

There's something very special about the sound of a big paper woofer covering the lower midrange. It's a big part of the reason I bought a pair of Forte IIIs.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 04:58 am »

Yes, I agree, and interesting.

Rocket Ronny

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 02:59 pm »

Here are some sound samples of the Neo 10 and Super Vs. With these being iphone recordings, the room is picked up way more than I hear, the sound is hard, shrill, and thin, etc. But it does give a basic idea of what's going on. Sound stage starts 4' behind the speakers, bass mostly 8' behind at the wall, and ethereal stuff beyond the walls.

The Metalist: https://youtu.be/p11kDtBKjpA
Light My Fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5G2b4dW6vU&feature=youtu.be
Chord Dav: https://youtu.be/ocJnvay2c7Y
The Mikes: https://youtu.be/70OdxoCCY4w

I am liking what's going on. I don't hear the Nad 3020 - just guessed at it's volume, Behringer crossover, crossover point, or miss alignment of drivers. At least not yet. I do hear the silver interconnect I added to make this happen, ha. With mid bass, and low mids, coming from the P Audio driver, which is high in the air, the sound stage has energy from top to bottom. I guess you could say the system scales.

Rocket Ronny

Jon L · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 05:32 pm »

Cool project

Where did you buy the BG Neo 10? It seems either out of stock or heavily priced at most places.

I see you are applying around 8dB of cut at 8 kHz to combat the Neo 10 spike, but does Neo 10 work without a tweeter (such as Neo 3) since it drops off rapidly above 10kHz? I wonder if applying a boost above that will be better?

jmpsmash · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 08:29 pm »

can't boost 10+dB without introducing massive amount of distortion, if it works at all.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Mar 2020, 12:32 am »

I bought the neo 10 from Audio Circle Industry Participant, Rich, or known as Hal. He might have a pair left, maybe.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=profile;u=38591

You can boost digital e.q. quite a bit and it sounds good.

Quote

does Neo 10 work without a tweeter (such as Neo 3) since it drops off rapidly above 10kHz? I wonder if applying a boost above that will be better?

Works for me. I can boost the 16 Khz slider, and have, but it also pulls up 10 khz a lot as well. Pretty good results as is, but I mess with the settings along the way. All of this is a very quick set up.

Rocket Ronny

uncola · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Mar 2020, 10:14 am »

What's the woofer? Sorry not that familiar with the Super V, if it's one from that project. Organ sounds great
edit: oh the Super V is a coaxial on top from p-audio that gr research modifies by opening the rear to make it dipole.. and it has two dipole woofers on the bottom, cool

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Mar 2020, 03:10 pm »

Yes, that’s right, but only the tweeter had the back removed as the woofer was already open. I am bypassing the paudio tweeter. I have them crossing over to the servo subs at 120 hz. So they cover 120 hz to 400 hz where most instrument fundamental frequencies are. So I am getting the power, punch, and body, with the utter clarity and transparency of the NEO 10s. I no longer have electrostatic lust.

Rocket Ronny

Tyson · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Mar 2020, 03:16 pm »

Quote from: Rocket_Ronny on 13 Mar 2020, 03:10 pm

Yes, that’s right, but only the tweeter had the back removed as the woofer was already open. I am bypassing the paudio tweeter. I have them crossing over to the servo subs at 120 hz. So they cover 120 hz to 400 hz where most instrument fundamental frequencies are. So I am getting the power, punch, and body, withered the utter clarity and transparency of the NEO 10s. I no longer have electrostatic lust.

Rocket Ronny

Yep, those Neo10s are remarkable drivers.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Mar 2020, 03:51 pm »

I am now a believer. Listening last night I was astonished at the inner detail and imaging I was hearing. Now the PAudio driver images awesome as well in the Super V build. Part of the imaging though has to do with speaker repositioning in order to get the neos wide enough. While the Neos have tremendous clarity and transient response, they offer a minor silky smoothness I don’t think I have heard in a driver. At least not this combination.

Rocket Ronny

Tyson · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Mar 2020, 04:34 pm »

Quote from: Rocket_Ronny on 13 Mar 2020, 03:51 pm

I am now a believer. Listening last night I was astonished at the inner detail and imaging I was hearing. Now the PAudio driver images awesome as well in the Super V build. Part of the imaging though has to do with speaker repositioning in order to get the neos wide enough. While the Neos have tremendous clarity and transient response, they offer a minor silky smoothness I don’t think I have heard in a driver. At least not this combination.

Rocket Ronny

YES!! That's spot on. The Neo10 (and Neo3) offer world class detail levels while remaining silky smooth and almost beautiful to listen through.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Mar 2020, 05:02 pm »

Quote

almost beautiful to listen through

Yes, that is what I am hearing. It's kind of like listening to beautifully harmonic tube amp, it's unique. Not that the driver does harmonics, it's just a type of silky smoothness that is beautiful. Don't mistake this for veiled or rolled off, it's something else.

Rocket Ronny

Tyson · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Mar 2020, 05:07 pm »

What you are hearing is ultra-low distortion combined with the best spectral decay around. It's not that the driver is "sweet" sounding, it's more that it's not adding any nastiness that most other drivers DO add. Like I said, a really remarkable driver. You should hear 4 of them in a stacked quad