X5's received two days early

geerock · « **on:** 10 Mar 2020, 11:23 pm »

My X5's were picked up in Utah on Friday and were delivered to Ct today. Didn't expect them until Thursday. Anyway....they were packed beautifully and were a very quick set up. Decided to break them in with the Don Sachs pre and Carver Crimson 275. I decided I'm going to just let them cook for a while. I'll play them for a few hours tonight. Turn them on again tomorrow to let them play all day while I'm out. And then I'm away for the weekend so they will get some time on for three days. I'll listen seriously on Monday to see where they are. I also need to try them with some SS monos.

bbybaudio · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 02:54 pm »

Good for you! My X5s are still improving, now past 280 hrs on them. My only dilemma is whether to drive Primaluna with KT150s or EL34s. I am sure you will love them.

mrotino332 · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 03:03 pm »

I also live in CT and my X5's should be ready to ship in about a week or so. Looking forward to listening to them as I'm new to open baffles.

deadhead · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 03:38 pm »

Congrats! I just got the call. My X3's are coming tomorrow. I am going to run them on my Odyssey Kismet for break in and leave them on a loop for a couple of weeks. After that I'll switch over to tubes. Please post your impressions as they open up.

geerock · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 04:54 pm »

I took a quick listen when I first got them and realized they needed some time to cook before I could give them a true review. They are grainy right now. Sometimes those new caps are what needs breaking in. Also the Carver 275 is fairly new also and doesn't have 60 hours on it with NOS tubes, so that may be a contributing factor also.
Deadhead.....
I have a pair of all in Kismet monos that are about a year old, so they have all the good stuff in them. I may switch over and let the X5's burn in with those. I've been a fan of SS amps with tube pre's for quite some time so maybe thats the winning combo. I also have an Linear Tube Audio ZOTL10 MKII coming soon and will try them with that and the Don Sachs pre. Should be able to get a winning combo in there somewhere as long as the speakers break in nicely.

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 04:57 pm »

Congrats on the speakers. I will be interested to hear your thoughts on that pairing, since I am running a Carver 275 on my X3s. I think it's a wonderful combination.

Shakey

geerock · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 05:12 pm »

Quote from: bbybaudio on 11 Mar 2020, 02:54 pm

Good for you! My X5s are still improving, now past 280 hrs on them. My only dilemma is whether to drive Primaluna with KT150s or EL34s. I am sure you will love them.

Yeah, that Primaluna can use just about any output tube. You are considering the extremes of both ends of the spectrum. The EL34 may be the most musical of all of them. For me, the KT150 was just too much OOOMMPH. Consider the mighty 6550 also for great balance between power and tone.
I use the KT120 in my Carver, but I heard a Don Sachs Kootenay amp recently that has the newest Dawning series of the KT88 by Shuguang (WEKT88 PLUS). Up until recently, I wouldn't give you a nickel for any chinese made tube. But my pre came with the WE6sn7 plus tubes and they are killer. And then I heard that amp with the plus series KT88 and that was also an Oh my moment. Apparently the top engineers of Shuguang are making a concerted effort to build some of the finest tubes in the world using new tooling and all the finest materials and have really come up with some winning designs of many of the most popular tubes. Just an FYI from an old tube guy. Might be worth looking into.

geerock · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 05:22 pm »

Quote from: Shakeydeal on 11 Mar 2020, 04:57 pm

Congrats on the speakers. I will be interested to hear your thoughts on that pairing, since I am running a Carver 275 on my X3s. I think it's a wonderful combination.

Shakey

Shakey,
Right now they are a bit on the grainy, gritty side. But I have NOS tubes in the signal path that are 20 hours old. And the Carver itself may have only 50-60 or so hours on it so everything may be in need of some break in. And I've used Clarity caps in the past and got the same "oh shit" moment when they were new, but they ended being a decent cap after putting a bunch of hours on them. Like I said before I have several amps I can use to find a good combo on. Time will tell.

geerock · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 05:30 pm »

Quote from: mrotino332 on 11 Mar 2020, 03:03 pm

I also live in CT and my X5's should be ready to ship in about a week or so. Looking forward to listening to them as I'm new to open baffles.

Hey,
Where are you in CT?

glynnw · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 05:34 pm »

Don't rule out flea powered amps. My favorite amps on my X5s are a pair of mono 45s. Of course these speakers sound good with my other amps, but I find myself drawn to the sound of the 45s. With the built in sub you don't need a lot of power.

witchdoctor · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 05:38 pm »

Quote from: geerock on 10 Mar 2020, 11:23 pm

My X5's were picked up in Utah on Friday and were delivered to Ct today. Didn't expect them until Thursday. Anyway....they were packed beautifully and were a very quick set up. Decided to break them in with the Don Sachs pre and Carver Crimson 275. I decided I'm going to just let them cook for a while. I'll play them for a few hours tonight. Turn them on again tomorrow to let them play all day while I'm out. And then I'm away for the weekend so they will get some time on for three days. I'll listen seriously on Monday to see where they are. I also need to try them with some SS monos.

It would be great if you could share a review of the Carver 275. Looks like a bargain, thanks

abd1 · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 05:42 pm »

Quote from: geerock on 11 Mar 2020, 05:12 pm

Yeah, that Primaluna can use just about any output tube. You are considering the extremes of both ends of the spectrum. The EL34 may be the most musical of all of them. For me, the KT150 was just too much OOOMMPH. Consider the mighty 6550 also for great balance between power and tone.
I use the KT120 in my Carver, but I heard a Don Sachs Kootenay amp recently that has the newest Dawning series of the KT88 by Shuguang (WEKT88 PLUS). Up until recently, I wouldn't give you a nickel for any chinese made tube. But my pre came with the WE6sn7 plus tubes and they are killer. And then I heard that amp with the plus series KT88 and that was also an Oh my moment. Apparently the top engineers of Shuguang are making a concerted effort to build some of the finest tubes in the world using new tooling and all the finest materials and have really come up with some winning designs of many of the most popular tubes. Just an FYI from an old tube guy. Might be worth looking into.

I'm excited for you. Any photos? The X-5's are near the top of my choice for next speaker. Also a fan of Primaluna but using a Line Magnetic LM508 right now. If you can check out the Sophia Electric El-34 blue glass tubes. I have a quad set I was using with my Primaluna that blew me away. I should sell them but I'm hanging on to them in case I go back to an El-34 amp. I also have a Shuguang WE6sl7 plus tube coming to try out in the Line Magnetic. Hoping the hype is real. Good luck with the X-5's. Based on what I'm reading consistently they need time to open, but graininess seems more like an amp/tube issue than the speaker, but sounds like you're keen on that already.

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 05:59 pm »

Well I"m no reviewer by any stretch. And I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn last night.

But the Carver is far from a grainy amp. I can't speak about break in, because mine was bought as a trade in from a dealer. But I can say that going from a Decware Torii to the Carver was a big improvement in the areas of a more 3 dimensional soundstage and better dynamics. I consider it a nice upgrade.

Shakey

mrotino332 · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Mar 2020, 06:05 pm »

Hi Geerock,
I'm in Fairfield. I'll be running the X5's with the Pathos twin towers which is rated at 30 Watts/channel class A. I've used this integrated for many years now and haven't felt the need to upgrade it and since the X5's are very efficient I'm hoping it will be fine. I can also fine tune the Pathos with different input tubes which really changes the sound of the integrated. I also have two Rel subs which I'll determine if I will still use. I've always had monitors so even if continue to use the subs I will be able to cross them over much lower which will be a benefit.

geerock · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 12:59 am »

Quote from: Shakeydeal on 11 Mar 2020, 05:59 pm

Well I"m no reviewer by any stretch. And I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn last night.

But the Carver is far from a grainy amp. I can't speak about break in, because mine was bought as a trade in from a dealer. But I can say that going from a Decware Torii to the Carver was a big improvement in the areas of a more 3 dimensional soundstage and better dynamics. I consider it a nice upgrade.

Shakey

Well, I know what I'm hearing. I have the bias set to about 125 to stay away from too much "tubey" sound. I did change out the user changeable caps on my Musical Paradise MP D2 MkIII tube DAC to my tried and true Mundorf Silver / Oil caps. Nice change as the VH ODAM caps that I took out only had about 40 hours on them. I called Chris at VH Audio and he did say that those things can be a bitch to break in and will be grainy or harsh for quite some time. I also put in the stock JJ tubes back into the Carver, but those things I don't like at all. So I went back to the Telefunken NOS. So I'm getting closer. I'll be gone for the weekend and I'll just let them play for the entire time. See if those Clarity caps in the crossover start to smooth out a bit.

geerock · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 01:16 am »

Quote from: witchdoctor on 11 Mar 2020, 05:38 pm

It would be great if you could share a review of the Carver 275. Looks like a bargain, thanks

Witchdoctor,

The Carver Crimson 275 is a killer deal for a tube amp. It claims 75 watts per channel but measures out far higher. Comes with 4 Tungsol KT120 output tubes, but it will accept any power tube from the EL34 to the KT150. The EL34 may not be the best for this circuit but you can use it. The Carver is very powerful and very dynamic. It brought out the bass and the low end slam to all my other speakers. With the X series the bass is covered by its own N Core amp, which BTW is some of the most natural sounding bass I've heard, even before break in. The Carver runs very cool due to Bobs circuit that runs the tubes at a lower voltage and he calls a DC restorer circuit. You can actually put your hands on the tubes without getting burned during normal play. Tube life is said to be many years, and the tubes and amp are warranted for 5 years. Bad tube on the built in readout and you get a new tube. You can also adjust the output bias so that you will adjust the damping factor of the amp. The 12 series signal tubes AT's and AX used to come with Electro Harmonix, which were pretty nice. Now they come with JJ which I had to immediately change. At a MSRP of $2750 it is a steal. I bought mine from a local seller that had it for 2 weeks for $2350. The amp is commonly compared to the sound of the Carver 350 monos which sell for about $9500. It is a best buy in my opinion. Look it up as there is some other very interesting features of this piece that will interest you. I am actually waiting for a set of WEKT88 Plus tubes to come in from Amazon. Going to try these new offerings from Shuguang as they are getting great reviews. With Amazon, I can return them if I don't like them.
All the best to you.

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 10:39 am »

You are running the bias on the Carver way too high IMHO. It's no wonder you hear what you report. I tried bumping it up to 100 and the sound became analytical and uninvolving. I can't imagine how bad it would be at 125. I also tried it lower down at 60. Now there is the "tubey" sound you mentioned trying to avoid. 125 is more than the recommended range.

I am biased at 90 now and that seems to be perfect for my system. If you haven't already, experiment with a lower bias.

Shakey

geerock · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 04:47 pm »

Quote from: Shakeydeal on 12 Mar 2020, 10:39 am

You are running the bias on the Carver way too high IMHO. It's no wonder you hear what you report. I tried bumping it up to 100 and the sound became analytical and uninvolving. I can't imagine how bad it would be at 125. I also tried it lower down at 60. Now there is the "tubey" sound you mentioned trying to avoid. 125 is more than the recommended range.

I am biased at 90 now and that seems to be perfect for my system. If you haven't already, experiment with a lower bias.

Shakey

Shakey
I'm sure you understand that everyone hears differently. What may work for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone. I started at 100 and didn't like it with the Martin Logan electrostats I was using and i lost the detail in the higher registers. Went to 125 and I got the smooth detail I like. The first thing I noticed when I received the X5's was the difference in the high end. Harsh and grainy. Tried reducing the bias, and all I got was tubey midrange and still grainy highs. I actually swapped out the 275 for a pair of SS monos last night and the highs are still not quite right. I've been a fan of tube pre with SS amps for quite some time so this is the combo I'll probably stay with as far as power goes. I'm assuming the speakers just need to cook a bit more. If they don't settle down and smooth out I'll just send them back. They have a great natural bass that is the best I've heard. But string instruments, piano, and voices are just not there right now. I've got some different NOS tubes I can try in both the tube DAC and the Carver. That's something that can change the sound of tube equipment considerably. I'm away for the weekend and these things are going to be playing the whole time for 3 days. By the time I get back they will have about 120 total hours on them and I'll have a good idea of what to expect from them.

glynnw · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 05:05 pm »

This morning I noticed that piano on my X5s was better than I had ever had - and the treble is much smoother than initially. Probably have 100-200 hours. Let me recommend the new Bruce Hornsby album "Absolute Zero" for some excellent recorded piano. Not really crazy about the music, but the sound is excellent. One of my buddies commented that it was an audiophile recording.

geerock · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Mar 2020, 05:21 pm »

Quote from: glynnw on 12 Mar 2020, 05:05 pm

This morning I noticed that piano on my X5s was better than I had ever had - and the treble is much smoother than initially. Probably have 100-200 hours. Let me recommend the new Bruce Hornsby album "Absolute Zero" for some excellent recorded piano. Not really crazy about the music, but the sound is excellent. One of my buddies commented that it was an audiophile recording.

That's funny you should say that. That album is one that I was streaming in DSD with my Martin Logans. I could actually hear the resonance of the piano strings. Just stunning and just like the music is being played in the room. Although with the X5's it is still very nice, they just have that grit that I am assuming is the crossover caps getting burned in. No other changes were made to the system so it's a direct comparison. I appreciate the info on the break in time. I have a feeling when I get back from my getaway these things will have smoothed out, especially when I start working closer with placement and changing up a bit on room treatments.