[WarmColors]

Greetings,

Anybody has any recommendations for DACs? I have my heart set on Schiit Gungnir Multibit. Just planning on hooking up my TV to it via Optical, maybe my computer through Schiit's USB interface. I don't plan on having my computer near the DAC eventually i will need to move my desktop back to where it is now (in a different room). I was thinking Network streamer/DAC. Something like Cambridge Audio, NAD.
Or should i just purchase NAD's M10 big brother the M33?
I was also thinking buying a notebook dedicated as a source?

What do you guys use as a source? DAC?

Thank you,

[Jmitchell3]

I just use a modi 3.

[Jaytor]

If you're looking for a good low-cost streamer, I'd recommend the Bluesound Node 2i. The built in DAC is decent, but not as good as the Gumby. You can add an external DAC when budget allows but you'd have to spend several times the cost of the Node 2i took get a noticably better streamer.

[corndog71]

If you're looking for a good low-cost streamer, I'd recommend the Bluesound Node 2i. The built in DAC is decent, but not as good as the Gumby. You can add an external DAC when budget allows but you'd have to spend several times the cost of the Node 2i took get a noticably better streamer.

Yep, the bluesound and schitt are toys I’m interested in as well.

[Coldfusion]

Greetings,

Anybody has any recommendations for DACs? I have my heart set on Schiit Gungnir Multibit. Just planning on hooking up my TV to it via Optical, maybe my computer through Schiit's USB interface. I don't plan on having my computer near the DAC eventually i will need to move my desktop back to where it is now (in a different room). I was thinking Network streamer/DAC. Something like Cambridge Audio, NAD.
Or should i just purchase NAD's M10 big brother the M33?
I was also thinking buying a notebook dedicated as a source?

What do you guys use as a source? DAC?

Thank you,

I have a Bifrost Uber, Emotiva xda-1, modi 2 uber, and emotiva xda-2

If I was buying a new one today though, I’d go with a Topping D50s.

[JLM]

Had a PS Audio DirectStream Junior (DSJ) and traded it for a NAD M10. 

The DSJ based system ran off ripped Redbook/hi-res to a souped up mini and then fed JBL 708P reference active monitors.  Couldn't hear an improvement with hi-res - not surprising as almost none are natively recorded in higher resolutions.  And the 708Ps had internal DACs which rendered the nice DSJ all but pointless.  So went back to my 16 year old commissioned passive speakers and picked up the M10 for the best sound I've ever gotten out of them using ripped CD's on a flash drive and Tidal.

But most importantly to me, the M10 $2750 MSRP ("streaming amplifier") can be run without use of a streamer, computer, extra software, USB cables, or interconnects thanks to BlueSound and the one box solution.  IMO the M10 is the value leader of the NAD Master Series.  It is thoroughly modern, very flexible, simple, and compact.  As a big bonus it has Dirac Live room correction on board.  The M33 promises to take everything up a notch from the M10, especially the Purifi based power amp, but will cost significantly more when released. 

On the opposite end of economic scale, the NAD Node 2i is great value considering you can live happily off Tidal/Qobuz versus investing $$$$ in music purchases.  The $1650 MSRP NAD C658 is described as a Node 2i on steroids and a sonic step between the Node 2i and the M10.  Both run off BlueSound so no computer is needed.  And the C658 also has Dirac Live.

Before buying the DSJ home trialed Schiit Gungnir MB, but sounded no better than a small $1200 MSRP DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core DAC/preamp with room correction, so back it went.  Like the Schiit company approaches but they're sort of out in left field regarding their DAC designs, making resale a bit iffy. 

[apstoltz]

I run a node2i with a topping d70 dac and have been very pleased. The topping is best piece of equipment that I have bought in a long time.

[witchdoctor]

I own the Bluesound Node, the Klipsch Gate, PC's and the Onkyo DP X1 (portable player) as sources. I would advise to avoid a PC if at all possible and go with a dedicated music source. If you are using a dedicated DAC I recommend selecting your source based on the OS. Android gives you the most flexibilty and if you can select a source that is dedicated for music (not a phone) that uses android you will have no restrictions on the apps you use for music.

Bluos is OK but is crap compared to android. If you want a whole house system I would go open source with DTS-Play Fi ecosystem. The Paradigm PW-Link can be used as a source and/or a dac and also gives you ARC room correction (and is 50% off right now via paradigm website)

As for a DAC I would definitely NOT waste money on one that offers all the functions of a pre amp if you already have a pre amp. I prefer the DAC's that offer MQA as to my ears it sounds more analog but YMMV. Take a look at iFi, SMSL, and Cambridge.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

I currently use the $200-ish Drop/Massdrop Grace Designs ODAC& Amp running direct to my powered monitors (Samson RXA5)
Once I upgrade to the NX-Studios, I'll plan to upgrade to the PS-Audio Sprout 100.

[WarmColors]

Had a PS Audio DirectStream Junior (DSJ) and traded it for a NAD M10. 

The DSJ based system ran off ripped Redbook/hi-res to a souped up mini and then fed JBL 708P reference active monitors.  Couldn't hear an improvement with hi-res - not surprising as almost none are natively recorded in higher resolutions.  And the 708Ps had internal DACs which rendered the nice DSJ all but pointless.  So went back to my 16 year old commissioned passive speakers and picked up the M10 for the best sound I've ever gotten out of them using ripped CD's on a flash drive and Tidal.


But most importantly to me, the M10 $2750 MSRP ("streaming amplifier") can be run without use of a streamer, computer, extra software, USB cables, or interconnects thanks to BlueSound and the one box solution.  IMO the M10 is the value leader of the NAD Master Series.  It is thoroughly modern, very flexible, simple, and compact.  As a big bonus it has Dirac Live room correction on board.  The M33 promises to take everything up a notch from the M10, especially the Purifi based power amp, but will cost significantly more when released. 

On the opposite end of economic scale, the NAD Node 2i is great value considering you can live happily off Tidal/Qobuz versus investing $$$$ in music purchases.  The $1650 MSRP NAD C658 is described as a Node 2i on steroids and a sonic step between the Node 2i and the M10.  Both run off BlueSound so no computer is needed.  And the C658 also has Dirac Live.

Before buying the DSJ home trialed Schiit Gungnir MB, but sounded no better than a small $1200 MSRP DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core DAC/preamp with room correction, so back it went.  Like the Schiit company approaches but they're sort of out in left field regarding their DAC designs, making resale a bit iffy.

How is the M10 working out for you? have you been having any issues with the Software?
I am interested in the M33. I keep checking weekly to see if there is any news regarding the M33 but nothing so far. Today a video was released regarding the M33 saying it may be released in April.
Currently i am just keeping an eye out on PS Audio Stellar Strada & NAD M33.

[JLM]

M10 is running OK.  Have had some hiccups, but so far all recoverable.  Not sure if the issues are with BlueSound, the M10, or my MacBook Air.  For instance a recent BlueSound update caused the M10 to power down, had to unplug/replug it in.  And in seemingly an unrelated event the screen temporarily went blank while playing (of course with computer/smartphone control it's not really needed). 

Both companies have relatively deep resources/history, but NAD is much more impressive.  PS Audio is more of a family run business, Paul seems to be in semi-retirement, messing with speakers now.  Not sure what'll happen to the company when he finally does retire.  Haven't kept up with them but don't see the super server they were working on (did PS Connect replace it?).  They have a good forum and wonderful customer service.  Back when I bought my DSJ pricing was soft (paid $2400 when MSRP was $4000, no special deals).  Now they offer trade-ins. 

I see that the Strada isn't available yet.  From a quick glance the significant differences would be:

- PS Connect is an unknown and apparently will only work with iOS or Android (Strada)
- No subwoofer output (Strada)
- Minimal display (Strada)
- No room correction, a biggie for me (Strada)
- M10 is a throughly modern, a non-audio looking/interfacing piece
- Wired (Strada) vs BlueTooth headphone (M10)
- Balanced input (Strada)
- I2S digital input, probably of limited use (Strada)
- Has an unknown remote (Strada)

Glad they finally turned the DAC design reins over to new blood.  Ted, who designed the DirectStreams admitted last year to having severe tinnitus.  That was a blow to their credibility. 

[WarmColors]

M10 is running OK.  Have had some hiccups, but so far all recoverable.  Not sure if the issues are with BlueSound, the M10, or my MacBook Air.  For instance a recent BlueSound update caused the M10 to power down, had to unplug/replug it in.  And in seemingly an unrelated event the screen temporarily went blank while playing (of course with computer/smartphone control it's not really needed). 

Both companies have relatively deep resources/history, but NAD is much more impressive.  PS Audio is more of a family run business, Paul seems to be in semi-retirement, messing with speakers now.  Not sure what'll happen to the company when he finally does retire.  Haven't kept up with them but don't see the super server they were working on (did PS Connect replace it?).  They have a good forum and wonderful customer service.  Back when I bought my DSJ pricing was soft (paid $2400 when MSRP was $4000, no special deals).  Now they offer trade-ins. 

I see that the Strada isn't available yet.  From a quick glance the significant differences would be:

- PS Connect is an unknown and apparently will only work with iOS or Android (Strada)
- No subwoofer output (Strada)
- Minimal display (Strada)
- No room correction, a biggie for me (Strada)
- M10 is a throughly modern, a non-audio looking/interfacing piece
- Wired (Strada) vs BlueTooth headphone (M10)
- Balanced input (Strada)
- I2S digital input, probably of limited use (Strada)
- Has an unknown remote (Strada)

Glad they finally turned the DAC design reins over to new blood.  Ted, who designed the DirectStreams admitted last year to having severe tinnitus.  That was a blow to their credibility.

Thank you for the feedback.

Like I said I've been reading a few forums and some people are experiencing similar issues like what you have had.
If I'm paying 2700 or 5000 for a product I do expect for said product to work well and not have so many issues. (It seems most people are content with the performance just not the software, could be bluesound, or the "operating system" for the M10)

I contacted a rep. With PS audio to confirm if the Strata RCA outs are pre amps and TJ said yes. They can be used for subs.

I am leaning more towards the M33 due to being able to upgrade. Not sure what else the M33 may need (M33 checks off all the things I've been looking for)

[JLM]

Of course preamp outputs can be used for subs, but:

- the outputs will be in stereo (some debate if deep bass should be mono or stereo, you'd need "Y" connections to blend both channels)
- you'll have to use the sub's controls to adjust the "blend-in" frequency (no real crossover possible)
- your main speakers will be running full range (one of the advantages of adjustable subwoofer outputs like on the M10 is to take load off the main speakers, it made a significant improvement in my case dropping the crossover to 60 Hz)

If you want a real crossover you'd have to connect the sub to the speaker outputs and pass high voltage outputs to the main speakers.

[Stu Pitt]

Is it just me or is the DAC way overkill for the OP’s application? Maybe I’m missing something?

If you’re just looking for toslink for your TV output, I highly doubt there’s going to be much difference if any in using a Schiit Gungnir vs a Modi or similar. If you’re connecting a music source and are doing more than background listening to it, that’s another matter.

The Node 2i or Node 2 is a great option here. It’ll stream music and it has an optical input. I used my Node 2 like this for a while before I hooked up my Rega DAC.

Safe and Sound has Nodes cheaper than most other places. Open box, refurbished, and they still have the Node 2. If you want to save some money, that’s a great route to go IMO. I got a Node 2 refurbished for quite a bit cheaper than the 2i retail. Downsides to the 2 vs 2i are not as good Wi-Fi (I use ethernet) and allegedly a small step down in sound quality (I use my Rega DAC). Functionally they’re identical.

[WarmColors]

Is it just me or is the DAC way overkill for the OP’s application? Maybe I’m missing something?

If you’re just looking for toslink for your TV output, I highly doubt there’s going to be much difference if any in using a Schiit Gungnir vs a Modi or similar. If you’re connecting a music source and are doing more than background listening to it, that’s another matter.

The Node 2i or Node 2 is a great option here. It’ll stream music and it has an optical input. I used my Node 2 like this for a while before I hooked up my Rega DAC.

Safe and Sound has Nodes cheaper than most other places. Open box, refurbished, and they still have the Node 2. If you want to save some money, that’s a great route to go IMO. I got a Node 2 refurbished for quite a bit cheaper than the 2i retail. Downsides to the 2 vs 2i are not as good Wi-Fi (I use ethernet) and allegedly a small step down in sound quality (I use my Rega DAC). Functionally they’re identical.

I'm very new to this hobby. I use to just focus on headphones and was content.

I've been told there is no such thing as a stupid question... Just stupid people.

At one point I considering getting the node 2i hooking it up a schiit dac and from there an amp. Do I still need a pre amp for volume control? Or can I control the volume through the node 2i?

[WarmColors]

Of course preamp outputs can be used for subs, but:

- the outputs will be in stereo (some debate if deep bass should be mono or stereo, you'd need "Y" connections to blend both channels)
- you'll have to use the sub's controls to adjust the "blend-in" frequency (no real crossover possible)
- your main speakers will be running full range (one of the advantages of adjustable subwoofer outputs like on the M10 is to take load off the main speakers, it made a significant improvement in my case dropping the crossover to 60 Hz)

If you want a real crossover you'd have to connect the sub to the speaker outputs and pass high voltage outputs to the main speakers.

I noticed that the servo sub kits do offer speaker outs.
Does that mean I could connect the subs to the speaker out and than connect the speakers from the sub amp?
How would that work if I were to buy the m33? It does have 8 binding post.

[Tyson]

I noticed that the servo sub kits do offer speaker outs.
Does that mean I could connect the subs to the speaker out and than connect the speakers from the sub amp?
How would that work if I were to buy the m33? It does have 8 binding post.

You could do that if you wanted but IMO it sounds better to use a line level output.  And the M33 has a pre-out on it, so you can just use that.  See the red and white RCA jacks labeled "Pre Out" on the picture below?  It's at the bottom, near the speaker binding posts:



Just plug an RCA cable into that and the other end into the subs and you are done.

[Jaytor]

The Schiit DACs have fixed outputs. You can digitally adjust the volume on the Node 2i (which will adjust the level of the SPDIF output) and drive your amp directly from the DAC. But you will be compromising sound quality by doing this. By adjusting the digital signal, you are giving up some (or a lot) of the dynamic range of the DAC.

The Gungir DAC has reasonably low output impedance (75 ohm) but the output level may not be adequate to reach your desired volume level without a preamp providing more gain.

The A370PEQ does have a high-pass line output that you could connect to an amplifier. It doesn't have connections for speaker outputs (other than the subs). I don't think this is the best approach for optimal sound quality though. You're better off using a Y-splitter to connect your main amp and sub amp from your preamp or DAC output and run your main speakers full range. Or insert a high quality capacitor in the signal to the main amp to roll off the low end a bit.

I have the Schiit Yggdrasil and the Node2i so you'll be able to hear them when you come over this weekend.

- Jay

[WarmColors]

The Schiit DACs have fixed outputs. You can digitally adjust the volume on the Node 2i (which will adjust the level of the SPDIF output) and drive your amp directly from the DAC. But you will be compromising sound quality by doing this. By adjusting the digital signal, you are giving up some (or a lot) of the dynamic range of the DAC.

The Gungir DAC has reasonably low output impedance (75 ohm) but the output level may not be adequate to reach your desired volume level without a preamp providing more gain.

The A370PEQ does have a high-pass line output that you could connect to an amplifier. It doesn't have connections for speaker outputs (other than the subs). I don't think this is the best approach for optimal sound quality though. You're better off using a Y-splitter to connect your main amp and sub amp from your preamp or DAC output and run your main speakers full range. Or insert a high quality capacitor in the signal to the main amp to roll off the low end a bit.

I have the Schiit Yggdrasil and the Node2i so you'll be able to hear them when you come over this weekend.

- Jay

I think I will just stick too M33 or PS Audio.
Thank you for the info.

[Captainhemo]

Yeah, don't use the  high pass function of the A370 to drive your main  amp

As JayT mentioned, you'd be much better off using a high quality  cap inline between pre and main amplifier.


jay