[M3 EuroLTW]

So... I've acquired a BP26 with onboard DAC built in. The DA version.

Should I expect the best sound using a BCD1 as a transport using the BP26 internal DAC? or using the BCD1's internal DAC....

If I had a BCD3 would the best sound be using its internal DAC or the BP-26 internal DAC?

I would assume that Bryston would tell me the BCD3 beats out the BCD1 as a transport or using its own internal DAC... its just not clear to me where the DAC in the BP-26 stacks up vs using the built in ones on the BCD units.

Last question, if the BP-26 internal DAC is deemed equivalent to that on the BCD-3, am I likely to really hear the difference using either BCD as a pure transport and utilizing the internal DAC on the BP-26?

Thanks in advance to any insight anyone can add to my understanding. 

[Mag]

So... I've acquired a BP26 with onboard DAC built in. The DA version.

Should I expect the best sound using a BCD1 as a transport using the BP26 internal DAC? or using the BCD1's internal DAC....

If I had a BCD3 would the best sound be using its internal DAC or the BP-26 internal DAC?

I would assume that Bryston would tell me the BCD3 beats out the BCD1 as a transport or using its own internal DAC... its just not clear to me where the DAC in the BP-26 stacks up vs using the built in ones on the BCD units.

Last question, if the BP-26 internal DAC is deemed equivalent to that on the BCD-3, am I likely to really hear the difference using either BCD as a pure transport and utilizing the internal DAC on the BP-26?

Thanks in advance to any insight anyone can add to my understanding.

The BCD-1 has a pretty good sound on its own but I would try the BCD-1 with dac along with the B26 internal dac. If there is no distortion on playback you're good to go. There could be a conflict between dac processing, thus distortion, but I think it'll work and you will have even better sound output.

The BCD-3 IMO beats out anything I have heard using my own doctored cd's. The BCD-3 uses a different upsampling dac so you would probably get distortion if you use it along with the B26 internal dac.

When I use the BCD-3 I have to use 2 channel bypass on my SP2 otherwise there is distortion on playback with the SP2 internal dac.

[CanadianMaestro]

Is the DAC in the BP26 equal to the BDA-3? If so, you're set. Use a CDP (BCD-1?) as a transport. The sound profile will be that of the analog out of a BDA-3.

Or, buy a BDA-3 (like me) and enjoy its marvels. Hrs of fun comparing direct connection,  or indirect (BCD-1 as transport).

I think you're done, as the 26 is a great preamp. Haven't heard it yet with built-in DAC, though.

[M3 EuroLTW]

The BCD-1 has a pretty good sound on its own but I would try the BCD-1 with dac along with the B26 internal dac. If there is no distortion on playback you're good to go. There could be a conflict between dac processing, thus distortion, but I think it'll work and you will have even better sound output.

I appreciate you trying to help me, but I don't understand the advice.
With a BCD-1 coupled with my BP-26DA I'd have two choices for CD playback:

1) Analog outputs from the BCD-1 which imply using the DAC on board the BCD-1, and bypassing the DAC inputs on the BP26 by using analog in.
2) Using the RCA digital output from the BCD into either of the two RCA DAC inputs on the rear of the BP-26.

I don't see anyway both DACs would be used as you describe "one along with the other"

[M3 EuroLTW]

Is the DAC in the BP26 equal to the BDA-3? If so, you're set. Use a CDP (BCD-1?) as a transport. The sound profile will be that of the analog out of a BDA-3.

Or, buy a BDA-3 (like me) and enjoy its marvels. Hrs of fun comparing direct connection,  or indirect (BCD-1 as transport).

I think you're done, as the 26 is a great preamp. Haven't heard it yet with built-in DAC, though.

YES, that is in fact the question I don't know how to answer.... for either BCD..... is the DAC in the BP26 equal to either of them? somewhere in-between?

Thank you for validating the purchase of the BP26DA.... I do fear though that the cubed treatment will show up on a BP27 as yet to be presented to us that will add just a little more refinement.  And then the itch begins....

[CanadianMaestro]

YES, that is in fact the question I don't know how to answer.... for either BCD..... is the DAC in the BP26 equal to either of them? somewhere in-between?

Thank you for validating the purchase of the BP26DA.... I do fear though that the cubed treatment will show up on a BP27 as yet to be presented to us that will add just a little more refinement.  And then the itch begins....

Sorry, I can't tell you what to do here. My only comment is, enjoy the musik, and don't obsess about getting the "latest and greatest" toy, or what's "equal" to what else. BP26 is nothing to sneeze at. Listen to both modes (CDP or transport thru BP) and decide for yourself which sounds best. Don't be a slave to mass media, marketing, or reviewers.

cheers

[Stu Pitt]

If you have a local dealer, I’m pretty sure you can get a demo to hear the differences for yourself. I’m assuming you don’t, however.

I don’t own any of the gear mentioned, so I don’t have much insight. But I’ll go along the lines of the previous post - don’t trust anyone’s ears but your own. So many people have told me I’d hear things that I didn’t, I’d like what I didn’t, etc. Buy the best gear you can afford and don’t sweat the perhaps minor changes that could be.

Which DAC would sound better would probably come down to an age and connections thing. How old is the DAC in the BP-26? Is it an identical chip to the BCD-1 or 3? Does it do high-res if you have that?

It would be interesting to hear what the technical/spec differences are. But take them with a grain of salt too because are the differences audible to you in your room with your gear and your music? There’s a contingency that says today’s current DAC chips are far better than ones from only a few years ago. My ears tell me otherwise. My ears tell me a great DAC, regardless of age, still sounds great. People think my 9 year old Rega DAC is old and dated. I still haven’t heard anything that makes me want to upgrade. At least for the amount of money I’m willing to spend. I’d happily put my 9 year old Rega that costed $995 against anything that’s current and the same price. It wouldn’t beat every single one, but it would certainly beat many. And the ones that are better aren’t much better either.

Just some food for thought.

[TJ-Sully]

I appreciate you trying to help me, but I don't understand the advice.
With a BCD-1 coupled with my BP-26DA I'd have two choices for CD playback:

1) Analog outputs from the BCD-1 which imply using the DAC on board the BCD-1, and bypassing the DAC inputs on the BP26 by using analog in.
2) Using the RCA digital output from the BCD into either of the two RCA DAC inputs on the rear of the BP-26.

I don't see anyway both DACs would be used as you describe "one along with the other"

M3,
If it were me, I'd use the digital output from the BCD1 to the BP26 digital input - and use the DAC inside the preamp.
my bet is the power supply inside the preamp would be higher quality than the CD player. But that's just my 2 cents.

In the end, it's what your ears determine sounds better to you.  And it's fun to try out!

enjoy!

TJ

[James Tanner]

Hi Folks,

The BP26 uses a Cirrus Logic CS4398, an older generation DAC chip. All incoming signals are being resampled to 96kHz before they get decoded.

The BCD3 uses on of the latest generation AKM AK4490 chips with much lower distortion and noise floor. The incoming signals are decoded in its native format.

james

[CanadianMaestro]

Thanks, JT.

I would add that Cirrus Logic CS4398 is the same as in the legendary BDA-1. I still have mine, and won't be selling it in foreseeable future. imho, if you can live with PCM up to 96/24, and not DSD (over-rated, over-priced imho) then you are set with BP26-DA. 

[M3 EuroLTW]

Hi Folks,

The BP26 uses a Cirrus Logic CS4398, an older generation DAC chip. All incoming signals are being resampled to 96kHz before they get decoded.

The BCD3 uses on of the latest generation AKM AK4490 chips with much lower distortion and noise floor. The incoming signals are decoded in its native format.

james

Stereophile reviewed the BCD-1 and said the following:

"The signal recovered from the transport is fed to a Crystal CS4398 chip, described as a hybrid, 128x-oversampling 24-bit delta-sigma DAC. The original 44.1kHz data are upsampled to create a new 192kHz sampling frequency. While this process adds no new data to the signal, it shifts noise from the audible spectrum up to ultrasonic frequencies. This allows the DAC chip's digital filter to eliminate noise well above the audible range before converting the data to analog and low-pass filtering it a second time.

In addition to the low-jitter common master clock, the Bryston engineers have done two other things to reduce noise, jitter, and distortion before the D/A conversion stage. Careful routing of the circuit-board traces reduces noise from capacitive coupling between the digital- and analog-bearing lines; and discrete digital and analog power supplies, closely regulated and filtered, help maintain the integrity of the audio signal."

So, in theory the BCD-1 and BP-26DA are using same DAC chip, probably not going to hear much difference using either internal DAC from a BCD-1 vs feeding the BCD-1 into the built in DAC on the BP26.  To get a step up would require BCD-3 and using its internal DAC, bypassing the BP-26 internal DAC and going into the 26 with an analog signal.

That is more or less what you're saying, but I think knowing the BP-26 runs the same generation DAC as the BCD-1 clarifies it further.  Thanks.
(probably with more research I could have figured out what DAC is in the BP-26 on my own, thanks for saving some time)

This also means I could find a player with decent transport and just send the digital stream to the 26, and I may equal the BCD-1 being used as a transport, not necessarily going out to buy one.... tho, just running both on same remote... yeah, lazy, but easy-button.(s)

Alex Lipowich

[CanadianMaestro]

So, in theory the BCD-1 and BP-26DA are using same DAC chip, probably not going to hear much difference using either internal DAC from a BCD-1 vs feeding the BCD-1 into the built in DAC on the BP26. 

That is more or less what you're saying, but I think knowing the BP-26 runs the same generation DAC as the BCD-1 clarifies it further. 

Alex Lipowich

I think you will hear a difference, because BP26 runs on an MPS-2 external power supply -- lower noise floor than BCD-1 with its internal power. Effective power source isolation of both Digi and analog sections inside a DAC has bigger impact on the SQ than the DAC chip itself, imho.
cheers

[James Tanner]

Hi Folks,

The all-in-one CD 'player' doesn't use the S/PDIF transfer of data and clock.  The player is a synchronous system where jitter is essentially non-existent.

With an all in one CD player you can ‘Clock' the ‘Drive' directly to the ‘DAC' and you know its 44.1 / 16BIT so you can eliminate jitter.  The clock responsible for retrieving the data as it comes from the CD itself is also responsible for the D/A conversion process so there's no discrepancy between the master clock and any of its derivatives.

In this regard the CD player is superior. It can't be beat.

When you allow for a digital input and do not know what signal is coming in so you have to re-clock and resample the incoming signal. 

There is also the advantage of the clock having close proximity to the DAC.

James

[M3 EuroLTW]

The all-in-one CD 'player' doesn't use the S/PDIF transfer of data and clock.  The player is a synchronous system where jitter is essentially non-existent.

With an all in one CD player you can ‘Clock' the ‘Drive' directly to the ‘DAC' and you know its 44.1 / 16BIT so you can eliminate jitter.  The clock responsible for retrieving the data as it comes from the CD itself is also responsible for the D/A conversion process so there's no discrepancy between the master clock and any of its derivatives.

In this regard the CD player is superior. It can't be beat.

When you allow for a digital input and do not know what signal is coming in so you have to re-clock and resample the incoming signal. 

There is also the advantage of the clock having close proximity to the DAC.

James

James, thank you so much for a very clear and concise explanation of how the unified system of "player" is an example of same chassis design joining "parts" will almost certainly be an improvement over the same parts on separate chassis. So we would in fact expect a BCD-1 sending its analog signal to a BP-26DA to sound better than if we used the exact same DAC over in the 26, and the BCD as a pure transport.... makes total sense now. 

It is interesting how the digital world does turn upside down some of the general guidelines in our hobby...."separates are better".

Now of course you have me wondering..... on this very same BP-26DA I had planned to run a BT small conversion box.  Similar to a CD player source, these little boxes have a chip for the BT conversion to digital stream.  I wonder if there is an advantage to sharing clock signals as you described and having the small device do the DA conversion, or, sending the digital stream to the BP-26 with its internal DAC.

Think I'll have to buckle down and listen for the differences in this latter case.

[James Tanner]

James, thank you so much for a very clear and concise explanation of how the unified system of "player" is an example of same chassis design joining "parts" will almost certainly be an improvement over the same parts on separate chassis. So we would in fact expect a BCD-1 sending its analog signal to a BP-26DA to sound better than if we used the exact same DAC over in the 26, and the BCD as a pure transport.... makes total sense now. 

It is interesting how the digital world does turn upside down some of the general guidelines in our hobby...."separates are better".

Now of course you have me wondering..... on this very same BP-26DA I had planned to run a BT small conversion box.  Similar to a CD player source, these little boxes have a chip for the BT conversion to digital stream.  I wonder if there is an advantage to sharing clock signals as you described and having the small device do the DA conversion, or, sending the digital stream to the BP-26 with its internal DAC.

Think I'll have to buckle down and listen for the differences in this latter case.

Hi

Yes please let me know what you observe.

james