[Rusty Jefferson]

I got a Rpi4 and tried it with a Halide HD and Schiit Modi MB via USB.  Results were disappointing -  my Rpi2 with Allo Boss HAT DAC sounds much better to me.

Sorry to hear this hasn't worked out.  There's no reason why you shouldn't get better results with the pi4.

Did you install the Ropieeexl operating system?

Are you using the supplied pi 4 power supply?

Are you using it as a DLNA renderer?

Is it hardwired with Ethernet cable?

Are you using the usb 2 connection, not the usb 3?

[Mortsnets]

Rusty, thanks for the reply.

Did you install the Ropieeexl operating system? No I'm using the latest version of Moode.

Are you using the supplied pi 4 power supply? I tried the standard ps and also the ifi ipower and idefender for seperate power to dac.

Are you using it as a DLNA renderer? I don't think so, I use mConnect on my phone.

Is it hardwired with Ethernet cable? Yes

Are you using the usb 2 connection, not the usb 3? I'm not sure I will try them all.

Also tried Spotify using Spotify connect, sound was better both from Pi2/Allo and from laptop/Halide.

[Rusty Jefferson]

Basically a very similar question I have:

so long it's run through a quality dac, is the streamer hardware irrelevant to the sound? Or does that matter, too? Can't seem to find a definitive answer for that.

For example, would the Lumin T1/2 and TEAC nt-505 have better sound than a RPi connected to a kick ass DAC?

Thanks!

Streamer hardware matters, and clean power matters on a stand alone renderer. As an example, having a renderer that has something like the SOTM usb card that can be powered independently from a linear power supply will outperform a pi. However, the pi 4 set up as previously outlined is a very good inexpensive streamer.

I can't comment on the SQ of the dac/streamers you mentioned, but you'd have more flexibility to experiment with a stand alone dac. Where I use the pi in my second system, I started with a Chord Qutest dac (borrowed) but then auditioned a Topping dx-7 and my wife preferred the Topping. Win-win, the Topping was half the price of the Chord.

[Rusty Jefferson]

Mortsnets, I know it sucks to start over but the Ropieeexl is critical, and having it on your network as a DLNA device is also. We never tried Moode, but glancing at it, it looks like a lot of processing.  Ropieeexl is bare bones and headless. The supplied power supply is better than the ifi when we tried them in 2 systems. We use Minimserver as server software and BubbleUpnp as a controller. That's the best combo we found.

[Mortsnets]

I tried all the usb ports, Roopie XL, DLNA, BubbleUpnp with the same results: Rpi4 -> usb dac < Rpi2 or RPi3 -> Allo Boss HAT I2s DAC.

Googling the subject there seems to be those who think the RPi4 sounds better, the same or worse than previous Pi versions.

Pro Rpi4:
-----------
Advancing Audio Streaming, Part 1: Raspberry Pi 4 as USB Network Audio Transport
https://www.dagogo.com/advancing-audio-streaming-part-1-raspberry-pi-4-usb-network-audio-transport/

Anti:
------
The Raspberry Pi 4 Model B: Game changer for audio?
http://www.dimdim.gr/2019/07/the-raspberry-pi-4-model-b-game-changer-for-audio/

Much to our surprise, we actually preferred the sound of the RPi3!

The RPi4’s presentation had something of a “fatiguing” effect. The sound was a bit more “coarse” that that of the RPi3.

Raspberry Pi 4B for music playback
https://youtu.be/cjqEPyMr1zI

[Rusty Jefferson]

Notice the Dimdim blog loaded the same software on both, and shared the same power supply. In our casual testing, we loaded several OS and compared 2 power supplies and an expensive LPS we use with our every day server. The wall wort sounded the best in 2 different systems, I don't know why. The Ropieeexl OS sounded the best. We had 2 pi 4s going side by side to compare OS. We set both the pi 4 and 3b up as DLNA devices. We used Minimserver and BubbleUpnp and compared files stored on a NAS, and streaming from Qobuz. It was no contest which was better, in 2 systems at 2 different locations. We also used a good quality, but not exotic (YFS) usb cable, and a combination of Aqua, Chord, and Lampizator dacs. Now, if you do the same and the pi 2 still sounds better.......I got nothing. 

[Rusty Jefferson]

Apologies for a mistake in the above post. After checking some notes from the listening with my friend, it was the Chord Qutest dac that sounded best with it's supplied switching wall wart, not the Raspberry pis. Both pi sounded best from a 5 volt tap on an HD Plex LPS. Sorry for the confusion.

[Mortsnets]

I've tried a couple more DACs with no luck - ordered Allo DigiOne for SPDIF output.

[pinkfloyd4ever]

Basically a very similar question I have:

so long it's run through a quality dac, is the streamer hardware irrelevant to the sound? Or does that matter, too? Can't seem to find a definitive answer for that.

For example, would the Lumin T1/2 and TEAC nt-505 have better sound than a RPi connected to a kick ass DAC?

Thanks!

In my experience, yes upgrading the streamer hardware made a big difference in the sound. Again, I got a 3B+ based Allo Digione with the stock PS, and my wife and I both agree it was a big improvement over the CCA. I did not change my DAC.

I'm using Volumio over Wifi. No Roon, DLNA or uPNP.  I just stream Spotify Premium and Tidal straight through Volumio. This requires a MyVolumio subscription (roughly $30/year for 1 device) to run Tidal and Qobuz direct to Volumio without uPnP. Spotify Connect works natively with the free version of Volumio though, as long as you're subscribed to one of the Spotify Premuim levels.

In looking around to set this all up, I did read somewhere that Wifi can sometimes (often?) sound better than a wired connectinon as long as your WiFi signal is strong. I believe this was because the WiFi connection eleminates possibility of electrical noise being transmitted from the router into the RPi.

[Bullitt5094]

Don't know if this helps but... I use a PI with software called ropiee as a Roon endpoint for one of my systems. Roon will also allow you to use a couple of streaming services with it. I use Qobuz since they are at least redbook quality files. But you will also need to have a PC set up as the Roon server so it isn't just the PI you'll need to accomplish this. But that said, the Pi does a very good job on one of my secondary systems as an endpoint. I am also using an external Schitt DAC so that is likely better than any of the Hat DAC offerings.

[Mortsnets]

I'm a happy camper using Allo DigiOne and Modi MB via spdif.  None of the inexpensive DACs I tried sounded very good with RPi4 usb.

[Thunder240]

Cool thanks guys, this definitely helps. 
In Googling the differences between what seem to be the 2 most popular I2S-to-S/PDIF HATs (Allo DigiOne and HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro), the widespread consensus seems to be that the Allo Digione sounds significantly better.

Hey, I realize I’m late to the thread, and also that the OP already made his hardware purchasing decision. Weighing in just in case others are out there facing similar decisions.

I’ve build two RPi streamers, one based on a 3B with a HifuBerry Digi+ Pro, the other on a 4 with an Alli Digione Signature. The former is powered from an iFi iPower, the latter using an iFi on the clean side and an el cheapo SMPS on the dirty side. Both are run off of Ethernet, with WiFi disabled, and output to DACs using SPIDF.

When I was first A/Bing them on the same DAC (Hegel HD12), there were moments when I thought that the Digione Sig might sound a smidge rounder, less brittle. But those moments were fleeting, and I was never quite sure if it was real or if I was looking for a difference to justify the added spend. I never measured them, but I did go looking for differences that Darko reported, and I’m not sure whether or not I found them. If there is a difference, it is in the inner inner inner detail.

So, if you are trying to decide whether to spend $120 on a 3B+ with a Hifiberry and a sleek metal case or $350 on a 4 with an Allo and an acrylic case, in both cases using an iFi iPower, it’s really really hard for me to recommend the Allo as long as you can run off of Ethernet. Both get the job done and sound fantastic, and I had plenty of those “get lost in the music” moments when the HifiBerry was in my main system, before it got bumped by the Allo. But as always YMMV!

Now, I’m very interested to know what OP and others decided to go with for their OS?  I’ve only tried Moode and Volumio. Are there any others that offer a superior DNLA experience and/or are compatible with more streaming services? Do any offer support for Amazon Music? I too am not interested in Roon. I’m all in on Open Home / DNLA for my local music collection.

[pinkfloyd4ever]

@Thunder240

I'm using Volumio over Wifi. No Roon, DLNA or uPNP.  I just stream Spotify Premium and Tidal straight through Volumio. This requires a MyVolumio subscription (roughly $30/year for 1 device) to run Tidal and Qobuz direct to Volumio without uPnP. Spotify Connect works natively with the free version of Volumio though, as long as you're subscribed to one of the Spotify Premuim levels.

In looking around to set this all up, I did read somewhere that Wifi can sometimes (often?) sound better than a wired connectinon as long as your WiFi signal is strong. I believe this was because the WiFi connection eleminates possibility of electrical noise being transmitted from the router into the RPi.

Have you tried your streamers with WiFi instead of a wired connection? As i hinted above, most Wifi routers are cheaply made electronic boxes with no consideration paid to the electrical noise that may be transmitted over ethernet connections. Probably 99% of people are only using WiFi, 0.95% are using wired because they have thick masonry walls or a house that’s pre-wired for WiF, and 0.05% are us audiophile weirdos using it for streaming HiFi music to a SBC-based streamer. The point is that the designers of routers do not have us in mind at all when designing their products.  So, as long as your wifi signal is strong, WiFi can actually sound better in many cases because the electrical noise from the router is isolated from the streamer.

It’s definitely worth the price (free at this point in your case) to try it both ways.

[zerojeff]

Running a Pi 3 with Volumio usb to hard drive. Have tried various D/A converters both external and RPi streaming. The best I have found is a Terra Berry DAC 2. I have the RPi and the DAC set up with separate power supplies through the Terra Berry board. It sounds quite nice.

[JayM]

For some alternatives I offer my own experience. Please note, I haven't tried any of the ALLO products or Hifiberry products. I have however, tried Volumio on a linux laptop, a few years ago and found it decidedly inferior in terms of SQ to what I had then, even if it was well ahead on the UI. So I never revisited Volumio, and it may well have improved since then.

Hardware
I run a Pi3B+ with an attached 2TBHDD through a pi2design 502DAC used as an AES/EBU transport.
FYI, the newer HAT from pi2dsesign is the PI2AES and can be found in the link below. One of the many good things about it is that you can use a pi2 - pi4. Needless to say, even with my older 502DAC, the SQ is fantastic for me.

http://www.pi2design.com/pi2aes.html

I use a Keces power supply to power the HAT which also powers the pi. I am toying with the idea of buying an ALLO Shanti for my 502DAC.

Software
This update of Archphile is also spoken of in dimdim's blog which this thread has referenced a few posts ago. I am a relative noob, and I found the SQ to be fantastic and the implementation to be straightforward. Offers Gapless Playback and connectivity to streaming services.
Archphile has documentation which I believe is indispensable for any sort of sotware. You do have to SSH in to configure it. Basically just means opening up CMD on the windows PC and my biggest tip (apologies if all this is basic to you) is that you can right click to paste in CMD. So essentially copy from the documentation and right click in CMD to paste in some lines. You will learn baby steps in linux while you are at it. A lot of tweakability but a very good and solid base platform. I have gone ahead with a few tweaks - disabling LEDs. Can do remote volume or you can use DAC or pre.

Basically I run this from my android phone (using MALP). It does run Spotify (which is what I use), and can also run Tidal and Roon (both of which I don't use). It also offers facility to listen to webradio, and I have looked up and set up the radio stations for the (Australian) ABC stations which I listen to from time to time. I also find Linn Jazz radio interesting, from time to time.

https://archphile.org/

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/257937-archphile-archlinux-based-audiophile-distribution-raspberry-pi-udoo-quad-38.html

[OzarkTom]

New 40 watlt amp for Raspberry PI.

https://audioxpress.com/news/fully-self-contained-raspberry-pi-audio-hat-board-with-merus-class-d-multilevel-amplifier-now-available?fbclid=IwAR0n0XqSmqdPGGyliWOcIKBhjUWOl9MdSgifKLl9QsOBDmeEWLJzSc7Tdvg

[Thunder240]

@Thunder240
Have you tried your streamers with WiFi instead of a wired connection? As i hinted above, most Wifi routers are cheaply made electronic boxes with no consideration paid to the electrical noise that may be transmitted over ethernet connections. Probably 99% of people are only using WiFi, 0.95% are using wired because they have thick masonry walls or a house that’s pre-wired for WiF, and 0.05% are us audiophile weirdos using it for streaming HiFi music to a SBC-based streamer. The point is that the designers of routers do not have us in mind at all when designing their products.  So, as long as your wifi signal is strong, WiFi can actually sound better in many cases because the electrical noise from the router is isolated from the streamer.

It’s definitely worth the price (free at this point in your case) to try it both ways.

I did try it both ways on my 3B w/ Hifiberry, but not yet on my 4 w/ Allo. I agree it’s a cheap  (free) experiment, and it deserves to be done. Also, when I opted for Ethernet after trying out WiFi on the first streamer, I made no effort to try to isolate the cause of the poor WiFi performance. While I chalked it up to the Pi, I was living in an apartment building at the time with several other competing networks present on the 2.4 GHz band.

I’ll try out Wifi on both units and report back on my experience.

But the point I meant to convey was really just that the Allo does not, IMO, sound “significantly better”, rather somewhere between identical and slightly better! But then again, what is very subtle to me might be glaring to someone else.