2.5B3 sounded more detailed than my 4Bsst2

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masi61

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2.5B3 sounded more detailed than my 4Bsst2
« on: 22 Feb 2020, 09:29 pm »
I was lucky enough to be the recipient of having Gary Dayton come to my house to sort out some setup issues with my mostly Bryston system: 4Bsst2 amp, BIT-15 power conditioner, BP-26 pre-amp, MPS-2 external power supply, BDA-1 DAC, Thiel CS-3.6 speakers, Sony XA-5400ES sacd/cd player run with digital co-ax into the BDA-1 DAC, Analysis Plus speaker wires and XLR interconnects).

I lost a bunch of dynamics when I moved the Theil’s from the long wall to the short wall. I was entertaining all kinds of catastrophic theories about the BIT-15 messing things up. Luckily Gary was able to listen to my concerns and took the time and was able to help me move the speakers back along the long wall and further out and into the room where the bass was no longer cancelling itself out. Our thinking was that the previous short wall arrangement allowed for a sonic aberration to rear its ugly head and the listening chairs were located close to where the bass notes were somehow neutralizing their initial power, making listening much more fatiguing.

With my anxieties reduced, we switched to listening to music. Some of my music first. A few of the tracks were great, a few were a bit low-fi. He complimented me on making good pairings for my 2nd go-round with setting up an audiophile system.

The 4BSST-2 is clearly a champ, being super quiet, having awesome bass grip and for the most part being fatigue free. I explained to Gary how I sometimes could not make out the vocals enough. He dialed up some high res vocal jazz from his laptop into the Bda-1 DAC and we isolated some sections that maybe could have been easier to follow or vocals more fleshed out.

He had brought a 2.5sst3 amp and the newer Bryston preamp and switched those in. We continued listening. We used a couple of the same tracks again. I was able to hear a bit more detail and more musicality where the interplay between lead and background vocals (for example) was less opaque - clearer. The detail retrieval required less concentration on my part, approaching headphone listening levels of absolute detail retrieval.

So I asked Gary, am I losing anything in translation if I were to “downgrade” to the 2.5sst3? He said he didn’t think so. He left and I had an amazing morning and much to think about. The 2.5 amp apparently cleared the bar for the power hungry Thiel CS-3.6 speakers they still had a very similar level of punch to the 4Bsst2. So I then started wondering about the cubed series amps - which one to go with?

Honestly, after getting my speakers placed correctly - I’m enjoying the heck out of my 4Bsst2 amp again. So I’m in no hurry.

Those who are using the 4Bsst3, can any of you testify as to your real world experience in your system in some of the musical intangibles? Thanks for reading my post and I welcome all feedback.

From, Bill in Dayton OH!


BCRich1

Re: 2.5B3 sounded more detailed than my 4Bsst2
« Reply #1 on: 22 Feb 2020, 10:28 pm »
Hi Bill,
I went from a 14BSST2 to a 4B3, no regrets. More detail and much more musical. My speakers are Totem Mani-2’s, they are 4 ohm speakers and like the extra headroom. No problem with the reduction in power.
I guess if you can swing the 4B it will help to keep things running more efficiently.
Can’t go wrong either way.
Enjoy the Music!
Mike


masi61

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Re: 2.5B3 sounded more detailed than my 4Bsst2
« Reply #2 on: 23 Feb 2020, 04:16 pm »
Thanks for the reply Mike. That 14B2 was a lot of amp for those speakers! Good to hear that the 4B3 is working well with your 4 ohm speakers.

I notice that you are using good quality speaker and amp stands with spikes. I would imagine that paying attention to details like that pays dividends in tighter bass, better focus, etc... what brand of amp stand is that BTW?

I appreciate your suggestion that I stay with the 4B3. This was my thought exactly when Gary Dayton and my young salesman from Hanson Audio did the demo. I think I paid $4,000 for the 4B2 and I notice that the 4B3 is now pushing $6,000 which, is a chunk of change for sure. I might get my finances in order and embark on some necessary audiophile tasks to get my house in order that don’t cost as much money. This way I can earn the privilege of the upgrade to the 4B3.

Thinking about how my low efficiency Thiel CS3.6’S seem to love you back when you give them better (more) high quality solid state power, I even thought about going even further past the 4B3 to the 7B3 monos. I’ve been reading Michael Fremer’s Analog Corner in Stereophile a lot lately and enjoy his writing. Even though analog is his speciality, he wrote a review on the 7B mono amps several years ago and it was not entirely complementary. I’m tempted to email him and challenge him to audition the 7B3’s for us? Perhaps someone at Bryston could volunteer to loan him a pair for review. One can dream right?

BTW Mike, just curious what you are running for a preamp? I see that 4B3 there on the amp stand but can only see a small box sitting on top - what is this? Is it some kind of DAC with gain?

BCRich1

Re: 2.5B3 sounded more detailed than my 4Bsst2
« Reply #3 on: 23 Feb 2020, 04:38 pm »
Hi,
The Speaker Stands are Target R-4’s, each pillar is filled with Sound Bytes and lead shot, making them stupid heavy.
The Amp Stand is a Grand Prix Audio Monaco. It’s made with Carbon Fiber and Kevlar.
My preamp is the Bryston BP-26 with the MPS-2 Power Supply.
The little Black Box is a Audio Magic PEA, stands for Pulsed Electron Alignment. It’s what some might call Snake Oil, works in my opinion. Check their web site.....lots of great stuff.  I use many of their products and am very happy with them.
I recently started using ISOAcoustic Oreas as speaker and component footers, made a huge difference for the better in my system. It’s habit forming all this stuff, makes it fun but also expensive.
Good Luck!
Mike

gberger

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Re: 2.5B3 sounded more detailed than my 4Bsst2
« Reply #4 on: 23 Feb 2020, 06:29 pm »
I had Thiel 3.5s and was driving them with a 4BSST2 (BP-6 preamp.)  Was a happy camper.
Traded the  3.5s for a pair of Thiel 2.7s, still driven by the 4BSST2, but upgraded the preamp to a BP 17.cubed.  Immediately noticed the difference, particularly i  the  female voice and separation of instruments in the soundstage.
Traded the 4BSST2  for the 4B cubed. Another increase i n transparency.
I'm now a staunch believer in the cubed BP-17 cubed and in cubed amplifiers. A clear step up.

I noticed you said Gary had a newer Preamp. Most likely, it was the BP-17.

As an aside:  When I bought the  3.5 speakers, I called Thiel  for an amplifier recommendation. I was fortunate to  speak with  Jim Thiel (who was still with us then). Jim recommended the 4B Bryston.  I've been a Bryston convert since.

George

PierreB

Re: 2.5B3 sounded more detailed than my 4Bsst2
« Reply #5 on: 23 Feb 2020, 08:27 pm »
6000$ for a 300w/ch and 20 years of warranty.
It’s only 25$/month for 20 years of hassle free.
 :popcorn:

TJ-Sully

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Re: 2.5B3 sounded more detailed than my 4Bsst2
« Reply #6 on: 28 Feb 2020, 02:38 am »


Those who are using the 4Bsst3, can any of you testify as to your real world experience in your system in some of the musical intangibles? Thanks for reading my post and I welcome all feedback.

From, Bill in Dayton OH!

hey Bill

Nice post. thanks for sharing. And you are a lucky person to own the Thiel 3.6's.  I've had several pairs of Thiels...the 1.2, 2.2 and the 2.4. Still have the 2.2's and swap them in my system once in awhile. (Maggie's are my reference).

For Bryston amps...my pathway of amps is 4BSST2 to the 4BCubed...then the 14BSST2...and now the 14BCubed.
I love the Bryston Cubed amps.  For me, they bring more sparkle to the party..more life.  Easily distinguishable from the Squared series....which, is no slouch either!

Good luck!

TJ

CanadianMaestro

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Re: 2.5B3 sounded more detailed than my 4Bsst2
« Reply #7 on: 28 Feb 2020, 02:44 am »
6000$ for a 300w/ch and 20 years of warranty.
It’s only 25$/month for 20 years of hassle free.
 :popcorn:

LOL high perf comes at a price.