[gbaby]

Agreed. I've seen many, many concerts where the songs performed live sounded better than the studio versions. Often bands are much more dynamic and improvisational on stage too, that's why I probably listen to more live recordings than studio work. Live music is best!
Now back to the subject of Qobuz vs. ripped cds

Actually, I like well recorded studio recordings over live music because the engineer in the studio can affect things like stereo imaging that is virtually non existent in live recordings. The engineers also do tricks to make us appreciate our hi fidelity systems too. 

[CanadianMaestro]

^, well, imho, streaming services vs ripped CDs is like studio vs live, respectively.
No contest, really. CDs, ripped or in situ, sounds more realistic, 3D, like the live event.
Not sure why. Probably because the source material from stream services is compromised?
But again, many stud recs sound great as well.

[gbaby]

^, well, imho, streaming services vs ripped CDs is like studio vs live, respectively.
No contest, really. CDs, ripped or in situ, sounds more realistic, 3D, like the live event.
Not sure why. Probably because the source material from stream services is compromised?
But again, many stud recs sound great as well.

Agreed. 

[CanadianMaestro]

Agreed. 

 

For example, I wouldn't want to give up my studio rec of Beethoven's op 111 sonata by Kempff for the noisy one made live by Richter, with coughs and wheezing by his Soviet audience members (must have been winter!). Ouch. Both great pianists, but will take the quiet studio any day in that case.

[redbook]

 Yes , give me the studio version anytime

[gberger]

Also, Major streaming services don't have all the Classical performances by given composer, conductor, orchestra and chorus.  They do haveehe major ones, but not necessarily the obscure.
Example, there are well over forty differing performances of the Verdi Requiem, just on CDs.  Who has them all?

If I'm wrong, I'll happily stand to be corrected.

[CanadianMaestro]

Also, Major streaming services don't have all the Classical performances by given composer, conductor, orchestra and chorus.  They do haveehe major ones, but not necessarily the obscure.
Example, there are well over forty differing performances of the Verdi Requiem, just on CDs.  Who has them all?

If I'm wrong, I'll happily stand to be corrected.

Very true. Their catalogs of classical are really anemic. So CDs are the only way (also vinyl used) to "get the fix", most of the time. I think most streaming services underestimate the size of the classical musik crowd. Compared to pop and non-classical, it is smaller, but still, it's not small enough to bankrupt labels like Decca, DG, HM, and Hyperion, to name a few. Fast $$ from streaming rentals rules once again.

[Crom]

I shunned streaming services (I tried tidal, spotify, Quboz) for any serious listening because they just didn't sound as good as when I bought the CD and carefully ripped it, or bought HD tracks and served them from my system. Up until last night that is when I noticed a turn around. I googled a few things because my experience surprised me and I wanted to see if this was a shared experience...in the main it clearly isn't. Thought I'd post what I heard here and see if anyone's noticed a sudden (inexplicable) change or perhaps it's entirely explicable...

Anyway, I was having a 90s indie night at my place last night...just me and a bunch of great old tunes (this is the level of socialising that's possible in the UK at the moment). Given the source material, we're obviously not talking about the height of production quality but some of the albums had been remastered and I found a few albums that I'd ripped from CD (generally wav files as I'm a recovering purist) that were also available on Quboz so I decided to go down the rabbit hole of some comparisons. 2009 remastered version of Nirvana's Bleach was the first up. Every track sounded punchier when streamed from online. I tried turning up the volume of locally played tracks...still some depth missing though. Clearly this could be Quboz playing things louder (I don't have the sound leveller on in Roon as I find it negatively affects the sound) and I didn't get my sound meter out. I need to investigate further. I went further...I tried back in black AC/DC after that, a Rush album and then a Talk Talk album...every time I'd much rather listen to the Quboz version than my local version...very odd. I even had a high res version locally and a 44.1k version from Quboz...again, Quboz was 'better'.

My set up is as follows:

NAS > NUC (roon server) > HQ Player box > Pimped up pi > DIY dual mono DAC.

Everything was being upsampled to the same 192k/24bit stream regardless of the source of the stream.

Any thoughts?...too much wine?

[James Tanner]

Hi Crom

I have run blind listening tests here with my system using ripped CD's and Qobuz as well and so far it is about 50/50 in terms of which one people prefer.

One aspect of the streaming quality I wonder about is as more and more people come to see it as the preferred way to listen to music the differing digital formats  (DSD vs MQA vs PCM etc.) will disappear as high resolution PCM will become the default format.

james

[racerxnet]

Hi Crom

I have run blind listening tests here with my system using ripped CD's and Qobuz as well and so far it is about 50/50 in terms of which one people prefer.

One aspect of the streaming quality I wonder about is as more and more people come to see it as the preferred way to listen to music the differing digital formats  (DSD vs MQA vs PCM etc.) will disappear as high resolution PCM will become the default format.

james

Are you sure about the last sentence?? MQA and it's lossy 15 bit encoding sure wants you to believe otherwise.

[James Tanner]

Are you sure about the last sentence?? MQA and it's lossy 15 bit encoding sure wants you to believe otherwise.

Hi racer

Well my opinion of MQA is very well known and I have taken some hits for it.

james

[mav52]

It all comes down to what version of the LP or CD Qobuz or even Tidal used to support their HI-rez or MQA.   And we don't know ( most of the time)  if the albums used Tapes or CD's or even a needle drop and then it depends on the equipment used to copy the material.    MY CD's and LP's to me depending on my copies sound better than Qobuz or Tidal about 80 % of the time.

[racerxnet]

Hi racer

Well my opinion of MQA is very well know and I have taken some hits for it.

james

Honesty and integrity will carry one further than lies and deceit. We are on the same side.

MAK

[routlaw]

Either ripped CD's to a hard drive played via computer or CD's played directly through a transport to DAC sound noticeably better to me as well. Streaming services regardless of their resolution are the 21st century equivalent of FM radio in its heyday. Great for casual listening as well as discovering new music, but not preferred for serious listening. Direct digital files are just so much more engaging the vast majority of times.

[Crom]

Either ripped CD's to a hard drive played via computer or CD's played directly through a transport to DAC sound noticeably better to me as well. Streaming services regardless of their resolution are the 21st century equivalent of FM radio in its heyday. Great for casual listening as well as discovering new music, but not preferred for serious listening. Direct digital files are just so much more engaging the vast majority of times.

...and that's exactly what I've spent the last 10+ years believing since moving from physical media to digital files. I was very surprised (and annoyed) by what I found. It's impossible to check 100% that I'm comparing like for like obviously but the result became so consistent that it only got more annoying

[RandyH]

Agree Crom.  Cannot tell any differences so I gave up "testing" and focused on enjoying great sound and amazing library.  My system is a Lumin T1 DAC/STREAMER, Roon Nucleus, Audio Research Preamp, Bryston 4bsst2, Vandersteen Quatro CT speakers.

[jobiwon]

Since my BOT-1 keeps loosing communication with my Pi  I am thinking picking up a cd drive for mac and start burning there. 

Dont really want to burn AIFF.  Is there a 3rd party program for mac that will ripitate to FLAC?

I have a SGC ST Roon -->Pi-->Wadia 321--Rogue-RP1 and it sounds really close to a CD but must admit CD/vinyl is a little more engaging.
My internet service providers fiber trunc about 1 block away then DSL to the house.

  So I primarily listen to Qobuz and Then pick up vinyl and CD when I find something I want to own.

[RandyH]

Comparing physical media to streaming:  With CDs and SACDs I "sometimes" "think" I can hear a difference.  I have a Bryston CD3 and a Sony SACD player.  Though I am not sure why, when I think I do hear a difference it is usually in favor of the CD.  I almost always hear a difference when I compare vinyl to any form of digital.  My VPI Aries turntable and Dynavector XX2 are revealing of details and can reveal a liveliness to the music that is often missing in digital.  But vinyl is hit or miss.  There are so many variables...but when it is good, it is the best.

[RandyH]

Against my better judgement but inspired by this discussion I took the opportunity to compare an album I have available in 3 different digital formats.  The album is Diana Krall "The Girl in the Other Room.  I have an SACD, a CD copied to my hard drive and the Qobuz version.  To my surprise the Qobuz version was the best.  The Qobuz version is  96kz 24bit.  Not conclusive or a definitive mic drop moment but on my system, today, that is my verdict.

[Aoleon]

I'm a noob audiophile and I only recently started with this hobby. However, I have gone through Tidal, Qobuz, Apple Music, Youtube, Amazon, and the other streaming services. What I have discovered is that the recording format doesn't really matter. It could be FLAC 44.1 or MQA and if the master quality sucks, then so will the sound, no matter how you rip or download it. So that means the reason why CDs typically sound better, is because most of them were mastered properly! The stuff they are throwing up on these streaming sites like Tidal are typically remastered versions, and these remasters are done my monkeys in a sweatshop in Mongolia somewhere! They suck! And that's why streaming sounds worse than CDs, not because it happens to be in MQA or FLAC or AAC or whatever. The master quality is the biggest issue here. That's my 2 cents on this topic. Feel free to disagree.