Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?

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rbbert

Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #40 on: 28 Feb 2020, 10:01 pm »
...
WAV/AIFF do show lower CPU numbers...

This appears to be a difference between the BDP-1 and BDP-2, where WAV/AIFF show higher CPU usage

gbaby

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #41 on: 29 Feb 2020, 05:16 am »
WAV sounds hoarse to me, compared to Flac on my system. Almost never fails. Can be subtle, but in the end, I like Flac.

In the end, if the rec is well mastered to begin with, file format is irrelevant.

What software do you use to import music?

gbaby

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #42 on: 29 Feb 2020, 05:36 am »
Hi,

I also forgot to include that there are some Bryston BDP users and reviewers that have experimented and compared these formats themselves for sonic quality and found the compressed FLAC version to sound better than the uncompressed option. So for them, they are using FLAC not for saving space but for sound quality. Most BDP users do tend to prefer the uncompressed format sonically.

For example, the very last page of this 'The Absolute Sound' review of BDP-2 has the reviewer compare FLAC and WAV. He explains his reasoning behind it with some data as well as comments on exactly what he's hearing. He also reviewed Bryston BDP-1. Everyone has a different system and listening preference. With Karl's reviews, you can at least understand what he's hearing and where his preferences lie. Reviews that simply state X is better than Y without any explanation are rarely helpful. Karl typically prefers SPDIF, FLAC, and USB hard drives. He isn't fond of MPD with NAS drives or flash drives at all either.

http://old.bryston.com/PDF/reviews/2015_12_Review_BDP-2_Absolute.pdf

(Good job Bryston on fixing the old Bryston links :thumb:)

On the other hand, there is Naim where both the company and users explicitly and unanimously prefer WAV over FLAC. They all use the on the fly transcode to WAV option.

Thanks. Nice post and link. I'll let you know what I think after I digest it.  8)

zoom25

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #43 on: 29 Feb 2020, 06:02 am »
This appears to be a difference between the BDP-1 and BDP-2, where WAV/AIFF show higher CPU usage

That's good to know. BTW how do you track this? Just keep an eye on the CPU% in the 'Services' Tab?

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #44 on: 29 Feb 2020, 11:04 am »
What software do you use to import music?

XLD for rip and convert. Mac user.

rbbert

Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #45 on: 29 Feb 2020, 12:55 pm »
That's good to know. BTW how do you track this? Just keep an eye on the CPU% in the 'Services' Tab?
Sorry, just reiterating Kal’s findings.  If you message him he can explain more.

zoom25

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #46 on: 29 Feb 2020, 10:28 pm »
Sorry, just reiterating Kal’s findings.  If you message him he can explain more.

Do you mean 'Karl' from the article I linked above? Only clarifying as I didn't want to assume since you very well may be talking about 'Kal' from Stereophile who has ALSO reviewed Bryston BDP players.  :green:  :duh:

Karl did that test on a Windows machine and not the Bryston BDP players themselves.

FWIW, on my various previous Macbook Pro 15 i7's in Audirvana Plus or other players, WAV always loaded instantly and quicker than FLAC. FLAC also played perfectly, but FLAC definitely took more time. It was more apparent on bigger, singular continuous files.

On a side note, I remember reading somewhere (which I can't find now) that the increased I/O of WAV in comparison to FLAC was actually nowhere near detrimental to SQ in comparison to the increased CPU% for FLAC. Of course, the increased I/O workload is a real thing and can be shown in readouts - yet WAV was still the favourable option. I remember the person was qualified and a designer himself.

zoom25

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #47 on: 29 Feb 2020, 11:04 pm »
I've found there to be a pattern in what happens to the sound between the dichotomy of options WAV/FLAC, AES/SPDIF, USB/NAS. There is a change in tonality/presentation as you go from WAV to FLAC for example. I notice similarities in the kind of changes that take placed between the other options as well. I'd group them as this: Group 1: (WAV, NAS, AES, Jitterbug used on PC USB output to DAC) + Group 2: (FLAC [compressed], USB drives, SPDIF, No Jitterbug used on computer)

Group 1:

This group sounds more open, smoother, darker and duller sounding, and relaxed but can feel lacking in detail (especially initially or when going back and forth between their counterparts) and lacking in punch, but has more body.


Group 2:

More exciting, narrower soundstage, image feels more locked in, upfront and exciting, a sense of increased dynamics and more punch. There is no smoothness going on here as it applies to both vocals and instruments.


In quick testing, Group 2 always sounds more detailed and exciting. Group 1 on the other hand can seem less detailed, less dynamic and diffused. This feeling does go away after long and continuous listening. I feel it takes a lot longer for the brain to calm down and adjust and buy-in to the sound of Group 1. Going to Group 2 and getting acclimated on the other hand takes little time as it's exciting.

However, when I listen exclusively to one group without any switching and forget about fidelity or SQ, I feel I can listen longer and with less fatigue to items on Group 1. It flows better and is easier on my ears. The opposite tends to happen with Group 2. It starts off great, but overtime can feel fatiguing. Another side note about dynamic range. With compressed and popular music, I think Group 1 can seem less punchy. However, when you play material with a large dynamic range, I find that I can hear both the music get loud (with ease) but also get very quiet. With Group 2, it always feels more lively, but you never feel it quieten down as much.

I'm not stating this as a universal truth. It's just been my experience over the years. Perhaps I've been conditioned this way due to pre-existing biases, my current ears, or the content I'm listening to and the speakers/headphones and room I have.

If Group 2 is the more accurate group, I can totally understand that as it always sounds locked in and exciting from the start. Perhaps, it's my equipment/ears that for some reason doesn't let me listen to that configuration for a long time. I can also understand Group 1 being better as it can start off weak, but it sounds relaxed and fatigue free in the long run.

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #48 on: 1 Mar 2020, 12:02 am »
This is good, zoom.
But methinks you are right about all this being
- system-dependent
- mood dependent
- musik dependent (slow, fast, classical, blues, etc)
- room specific
etc

like trying to hit a moving target   :o :roll:

rbbert

Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #49 on: 1 Mar 2020, 12:56 pm »
His name is Kal, not Karl

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #50 on: 1 Mar 2020, 01:58 pm »
Do you mean 'Karl' from the article I linked above? Only clarifying as I didn't want to assume since you very well may be talking about 'Kal' from Stereophile who has ALSO reviewed Bryston BDP players.  :green:  :duh:


Can you post the link to Kal's review on Stereophile?
I'm only aware of Larry Greenhill's reviews of the BDPs, on 'phile. Not "Kal".

EDIT: I found this: https://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-60
But Kal did not review Bryston BDPs -- he did Oppo's BDP players.

cheers

rbbert

Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #51 on: 1 Mar 2020, 02:36 pm »
Yes, my mistake, although I think Kal has posted elsewhere about preferring FLAC to WAV.  However, I could be wrong about that as well.  I’ll just withdraw before my suspect memory results in more embarrassment   :oops:

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #52 on: 1 Mar 2020, 03:25 pm »
^ thanks for the clarification. I was actually replying to zoom's earlier post, but he's busy comparing wav and flac under 1001 diff conditions   :lol: :green:

RandyH

Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #53 on: 1 Mar 2020, 04:41 pm »
Sometimes I wonder how many potential hours of musical enjoyment I have wasted making comparisons of one type or another.  Cables, source components, digital file types, streaming vs CD, vinyl vs CD....etc.  Yes I know the quest for the best is part of this hobby and we all delight whenever we hear a difference.  As I have gotten older, the tedium of these comparisons are just not worth the effort.  Maybe my hearing is not what it once was and I cannot detect the subtle differences in sound quality....or maybe these differences are just not that important anymore.  As the quality of the hardware and software has improved there just seem to be fewer "night and day" differences. Even when I can detect a difference it is even more difficult to determine whether that difference is an improvement....or just a difference. Interestingly the less I worry about finding the absolute best nuanced sound improvement, the more I a enjoying the music.  Sure, I am curious about new and potentially "better" sounding components but I am less driven to go down that rabbit hole.

stirer

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #54 on: 1 Mar 2020, 05:09 pm »
I agree. As one matures, the quest for the “ultimate” sound becomes more elusive. In addition, one faces the law of diminishing returns as well as the inevitability of downsizing

Saturn94

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #55 on: 1 Mar 2020, 05:27 pm »
Sometimes I wonder how many potential hours of musical enjoyment I have wasted making comparisons of one type or another.  Cables, source components, digital file types, streaming vs CD, vinyl vs CD....etc.  Yes I know the quest for the best is part of this hobby and we all delight whenever we hear a difference.  As I have gotten older, the tedium of these comparisons are just not worth the effort.  Maybe my hearing is not what it once was and I cannot detect the subtle differences in sound quality....or maybe these differences are just not that important anymore.  As the quality of the hardware and software has improved there just seem to be fewer "night and day" differences. Even when I can detect a difference it is even more difficult to determine whether that difference is an improvement....or just a difference. Interestingly the less I worry about finding the absolute best nuanced sound improvement, the more I a enjoying the music.  Sure, I am curious about new and potentially "better" sounding components but I am less driven to go down that rabbit hole.

Yes!!!  :thumb:

Wind Chaser

Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #56 on: 1 Mar 2020, 05:40 pm »
+1 (or 2) :D

gberger

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #57 on: 1 Mar 2020, 06:49 pm »
 Saturn94,
Agree!  I've reached the point where I just slip a CD into the BCD-3, sit back, and enjoy the music without attempting to analyze and assess the variables.

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #58 on: 1 Mar 2020, 07:22 pm »
 :thumb: :dance: :beer:

Pundamilia

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Re: Qobuz vs.ripped cds, is it just me?
« Reply #59 on: 1 Mar 2020, 08:06 pm »
@RandyH: Add another resounding yes!! to the collection. What is the point of all this, if not to enjoy the music!