Wharfedale Evo 4.4

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I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #20 on: 7 Apr 2020, 03:45 pm »
Thanks for the reply sir, very interesting. I'm new at this but I'm starting to realize that it can be very difficult to build a system that does it all very well, even with lots of money. I may be better off having 2 dedicated systems (one for low volume listening, one for mid to high volume for example) although this seems counter intuitive at first for someone with a limited budget like me.
CCBios

My best advice is just listen to as any systems as possible, pick your speakers first and then your electronics.  Buy the best you feel comfortable spending.

Larry

maty

Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #21 on: 12 Jul 2020, 04:33 pm »
Thanks to bunkbail, a link:

Wharfedale Evo 4.4 crossover

YouTube https://youtu.be/CMVomg-aaCU?t=353

Optimized



I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #22 on: 12 Jul 2020, 07:23 pm »
There certainly is room for improvement in the crossovers.  I would definitely replace the sand resistors with Mills or Mundorf and the spirit caps with Clarity or something else.  However, the speakers sound great as they are.  Playing around with mods may ruin the sound. 

https://www.whathifi.com/us/reviews/wharfedale-evo-44


I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #24 on: 6 Nov 2020, 08:56 pm »
We are still loving the Evo 4.4's.  Pair them with a detailed DAC, preamp and amp and they will give you plenty of high end detail without fatigue.  When I swapped the Parasound A21 amp that my son is using for the new AVA DVA225 prototype monoblocks, the speakers sound really stepped up to another level.  Detail and resolution markedly improved.  Bass became more powerful and musical and the top end was very smooth without sacrificing detai.   I do recommend using a good sub or 2 to get the to at least 25hz crossed over at about 40-45hz.

I would love to hear the Elysian's and read a few pro reviews.  There really aren't any and that makes me suspicious that they do not live up to all the hype but there a few user reviews that like them.

bithloman

  • Jr. Member
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Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #25 on: 30 Mar 2021, 11:31 pm »
i just got these speakers the 4.4 and WOW what a treat. i comared them to the GR research MTM encore and i think i like it more. more "magic" in the top end and mid range with more tight bass. although the MTM is incredible at a quarter of the cost. the 4.4 blew me away. i would love to see someone upgrade the crossover or send to dany so i can buy the upgrade! what do you think about the cabinet? does it need extra damping? its seems ok but not great as far as resonance.

bithloman

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  • Posts: 11
Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #26 on: 30 Mar 2021, 11:32 pm »
WHARFEDALE EVO 4.4

[Polish] https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/kolumny-glosnikowe/3272-wharfedale-evo-4-4

to English: https://translate.google.es/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Faudio.com.pl%2Ftesty%2Fstereo%2Fkolumny-glosnikowe%2F3272-wharfedale-evo-4-4




Any word on an upgrade to the crossover? i wonder if i could just copy the values and re install it? maybe send to dany first? would be interesting since it is so many parts and so many drivers.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #27 on: 31 Mar 2021, 03:44 am »
i just got these speakers the 4.4 and WOW what a treat. i comared them to the GR research MTM encore and i think i like it more. more "magic" in the top end and mid range with more tight bass. although the MTM is incredible at a quarter of the cost. the 4.4 blew me away. i would love to see someone upgrade the crossover or send to dany so i can buy the upgrade! what do you think about the cabinet? does it need extra damping? its seems ok but not great as far as resonance.

Wait until they break in at about 50-75 hours.  The speakers become more punchy with better bass and more musical. That AMT tweeter is smooth but also benefits from breakin.  My son is running it with a Cary Audio 300.2d integrated/DAC with about 450 wpc and a Rythmik F12 sub which blends perfectly and fills in the bass.

We tried them in my reference system with my Pass amp, BAT pre and Luxman DAC and the speakers sounded great.

I think the cabinet is fine.  Haven't noticed any resonance.  Changing the crossover will change the sound for sure.  I spoke to the Wharfedale guys at RMAF and they tuned that AMT tweeter to not sound bright. 

Congrats!

Larry

magic44ken

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Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #28 on: 5 Apr 2021, 06:35 pm »
Wait until they break in at about 50-75 hours.  The speakers become more punchy with better bass and more musical. That AMT tweeter is smooth but also benefits from breakin.  My son is running it with a Cary Audio 300.2d integrated/DAC with about 450 wpc and a Rythmik F12 sub which blends perfectly and fills in the bass.

We tried them in my reference system with my Pass amp, BAT pre and Luxman DAC and the speakers sounded great.

I think the cabinet is fine.  Haven't noticed any resonance.  Changing the crossover will change the sound for sure.  I spoke to the Wharfedale guys at RMAF and they tuned that AMT tweeter to not sound bright. 

Congrats!

Larry's

When they said the AMT is tuned for a less bright sound, is that done in the crossover or the AMT driver itself?

One thing I wanted to improve is more dynamic, faster transit reponse than the slow PRAT from Wharfedales house sound. If we use better crossover parts, can we improve the overall PRAT and dynamic?

Jack996

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  • Posts: 3
Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #29 on: 11 Apr 2021, 09:33 pm »
I'd like to improve the components of the crossover, without changing the tonal balance. Which components could I use?
Furthermore, some measurements show a distortion peak around 600 Hz. Improving the components, could the distortion decrease?

richidoo

Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #30 on: 12 Apr 2021, 12:26 am »
I'd like to improve the components of the crossover, without changing the tonal balance. Which components could I use?
Furthermore, some measurements show a distortion peak around 600 Hz. Improving the components, could the distortion decrease?

It’s very difficult to increase resolution with modern xo parts while retaining the original tonal balance and voicing. They are kind of tied at the hip. There’s no systematic way to swap parts knowing EQ will be same as stock with only added resolution. The parts aren’t characterized in a standardized way. You can only go by online comments and trial and error.  With the better xo parts this method can get expensive. Also consider that the drivers and box construction will remain unchanged with vintage level performance which may not respond as well as you’d imagined to the improved signal  quality from the upgraded xo. Could well be the 600hz distortion isbdriver related and was tamed (hidden) by the lesser quality xo parts that you want to replace. The xo, box and drivers were voiced together as one animal and probably can’t be “upgraded” without upsetting the musical balance the original designers targeted.  If you want more resolution I recommend getting newer speakers that are designed with more resolution from inception, and keep the older speakers for when you want to enjoy their sound as different from the more modern higher resolution sound. Maybe a second system.

The distortion could be caused by speakers or acoustics. The speakers could have a box panel resonance or driver cone resonance or something broken. Best to eliminate acoustic or electronic cause before modding the speakers. Run a pure sine signal through each speaker one at a time sweeping slowly through the suspected distortion band and listen with ear close to the speaker to listen for the distortion. Upclose might reveal the cause. Adjust volume accordingly. Note that the distortion may not occur at low volume. Good luck!

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #31 on: 12 Apr 2021, 02:48 am »
I find the Wharfedale Evo's fast and crisp.  They do not have the house Wharfedale sound.  I own a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 10.2's and they are slow, warm with a lot of bloom, typical Wharfedale sound.  The Evo's are fast, tight and musical.  The tweeter is smooth and lacks a bit of sparkle that metal dome tweeters have but it sounds more natural.   They are not an in your face or  forward sounding speaker but they are not slow by any means.  I find them honest and natural sounding.  If your gear is slow, then the speakers will sound slow.  If your gear is fast they will sound fast.

Here is a quote from a user- "Today I've auditioned evo 4.4. Soundstage was beautiful, also I much liked how they play with ease, fast and responsive, classical music was just glorious"

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/wharfedale-evo-44

Jack996

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 3
Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #32 on: 12 Apr 2021, 07:24 am »
It’s very difficult to increase resolution with modern xo parts while retaining the original tonal balance and voicing. They are kind of tied at the hip. There’s no systematic way to swap parts knowing EQ will be same as stock with only added resolution. The parts aren’t characterized in a standardized way. You can only go by online comments and trial and error.  With the better xo parts this method can get expensive. Also consider that the drivers and box construction will remain unchanged with vintage level performance which may not respond as well as you’d imagined to the improved signal  quality from the upgraded xo. Could well be the 600hz distortion isbdriver related and was tamed (hidden) by the lesser quality xo parts that you want to replace. The xo, box and drivers were voiced together as one animal and probably can’t be “upgraded” without upsetting the musical balance the original designers targeted.  If you want more resolution I recommend getting newer speakers that are designed with more resolution from inception, and keep the older speakers for when you want to enjoy their sound as different from the more modern higher resolution sound. Maybe a second system.

The distortion could be caused by speakers or acoustics. The speakers could have a box panel resonance or driver cone resonance or something broken. Best to eliminate acoustic or electronic cause before modding the speakers. Run a pure sine signal through each speaker one at a time sweeping slowly through the suspected distortion band and listen with ear close to the speaker to listen for the distortion. Upclose might reveal the cause. Adjust volume accordingly. Note that the distortion may not occur at low volume. Good luck!

Then I'll explain better.
I listened to these Wharfedales a long time ago and now I've decided to buy them. I found the distortion graph on another site. When I listened to them months ago, I didn't notice any distortion, but I didn't pay much attention to it.
I know distortion can have many causes, but I thought that improving the xo I could improve it.
I also know that it is impossible to maintain the exact same tonal balance, but maybe someone has already tried some components that sound similar to these Wharfedales.
I preferred them over other more expensive speakers (for example the Kef R5), so I was just looking for a way to make them sound as good as possible.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #33 on: 13 Apr 2021, 04:24 am »
Then I'll explain better.
I listened to these Wharfedales a long time ago and now I've decided to buy them. I found the distortion graph on another site. When I listened to them months ago, I didn't notice any distortion, but I didn't pay much attention to it.
I know distortion can have many causes, but I thought that improving the xo I could improve it.
I also know that it is impossible to maintain the exact same tonal balance, but maybe someone has already tried some components that sound similar to these Wharfedales.
I preferred them over other more expensive speakers (for example the Kef R5), so I was just looking for a way to make them sound as good as possible.

These speakers need a good 75-100 hours of break in before sounding good.  My son and I preferred them over the KEF 5's as well which sounded muddy in comparison.  We were blown away when we heard them at RMAF with the Primare Prisma I35 Integrated amp/DAC.  He is using a Cary SI-300.3d Integrated/DAC and they sound fabulous.  Very dynamic, musical and punchy.  No fatigue at all.  They sounded even better when we inserted my Luxman DA-06 DAC.

Jack996

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 3
Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #34 on: 13 Apr 2021, 06:38 am »
These speakers need a good 75-100 hours of break in before sounding good.  My son and I preferred them over the KEF 5's as well which sounded muddy in comparison.  We were blown away when we heard them at RMAF with the Primare Prisma I35 Integrated amp/DAC.  He is using a Cary SI-300.3d Integrated/DAC and they sound fabulous.  Very dynamic, musical and punchy.  No fatigue at all.  They sounded even better when we inserted my Luxman DA-06 DAC.

They are all very expensive amps, I could never afford them. I was only interested in a possible crossover modification, without changing the sound to much. 
Anyway, since you talked about amps, do you think the Cambridge Audio CXA81 or the Musical Fidelity M5si can be a good math?

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #35 on: 13 Apr 2021, 04:02 pm »
They are all very expensive amps, I could never afford them. I was only interested in a possible crossover modification, without changing the sound to much. 
Anyway, since you talked about amps, do you think the Cambridge Audio CXA81 or the Musical Fidelity M5si can be a good math?

I just read reviews on both those amps and they are very good.  Seems like the MF has a fuller sound which I prefer.  Both should be a good match.  the DAC in the MF is from 2015 unless they updated it.  So you may eventually want to use a more modern DAC.

Another amp to look at is the Primare I-25.  The Prisma version has more features but is more expensive. Both are supposed to sound the same.  The I25 is similar to the I35 just less power and no balanced inputs.

Russell Dawkins

Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #36 on: 13 Apr 2021, 05:43 pm »
Looks like the Hegel H190 would be direct competition to the Primare I-25, but has balanced inputs and more power. It has rave reviews relating to sound quality and grip:
https://www.dedicatedaudio.com/collections/hegel/products/hegel-h190-integrated-amplifier

Neither has phono inputs though.

Alan Shaw voices his Harbeth speakers on a Hegel.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Wharfedale Evo 4.4
« Reply #37 on: 13 Apr 2021, 05:59 pm »
Looks like the Hegel H190 would be direct competition to the Primare I-25, but has balanced inputs and more power. It has rave reviews relating to sound quality and grip:
https://www.dedicatedaudio.com/collections/hegel/products/hegel-h190-integrated-amplifier

Neither has phono inputs though.

Alan Shaw voices his Harbeth speakers on a Hegel.

The only reason I mentioned the Primare is because it was paired with the Evo's at RMAF and the sound was just stunning.  We  thought it was one of the better sounding rooms.  It was very dynamic, detailed, resolving, clear sound with tremendous tight bass, huge soundstage and great transparency.  When people walked into the room they looked around to see where the subwoofer was and there was none.  They were using the Primare Prisma I35 with the DAC module.  My son wanted to buy the Prisma I25 but it was a little out of his budget.  Then he stumbled across the Cary slightly used at $2700.  It was a $6K Integrated/DAC.  It is not quite the sound of the Primare but it sounds great.

As far as a phono input, you would be better off with a stand alone phono pre.