Tube amps, not integrated, to try

daledeee · « **on:** 2 Jan 2020, 04:44 pm »

Hi,

I currently have horn speakers. Crites speakers similar to Klipsch Cornwall and are quite efficient. I am toying around with trying a tube amp since I have heard this is a match made in heaven. Here are some i found:

What about the Chinese knockoffs? Reisong is an example. Nobsound
Decware
Dennis Had
Dynaco. Several versions available. Van Alstine, Will Vincent, tubes4hifi.
Quicksilver

I would like to keep this under $1K but I know several of the above are higher. I am tempted to try the Reisong at less than $400. Let me know if I should stay away from these. I am wondering if these are blatant copies of other's designs with service and repair an issue.

What are the sound differences between SET, pentode, no feedback, self bias? Do different tubes and designs have different sounds? I generally believe less is better when it comes to signal path but I think 20 watts is plenty based on the amp I have now. My speakers lowest impedance is 6 ohms My solid state amp is Class A and highly regarded(Schiit Aegir). It does not sound harsh but as I said a tube experiment would be fun. Thanks in advance.

Tyson · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Jan 2020, 04:58 pm »

I've tried a bunch and if you want to stick with pentode tubes, Dennis Had would be my first choice. Mostly because he's one of the few designers to use octals (6SN7) tubes for input. I've found the 6SN7 tube to sound better than most/all of the 9 pin tubes like the 12AX7, 6922, 12AU7, etc...

If you need more power than the 10 watts that the Had designs produce, I'd recommend the Bob Latino built VTA ST70, again because even though it comes standard with a 12AU7 board, there's an option to switch it to a 6SN7 octal board. It doesn't look glamorous but it's one of the best sounding push pull 40 watt amps out there.

witchdoctor · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Jan 2020, 05:04 pm »

All I can say is you have a high risk of wasting $$ if you don't get a return policy. I would recommend visiting a local dealer in your area if you have one. If I were buying a tube amp I would go the other way and look for an established brand and just spend the $$. A dream amp for your Klipsch speakers IMO would be a Carver 275 stereo amp for less than $3K:

https://www.bobcarvercorp.com/products

rollo · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Jan 2020, 05:09 pm »

Klipsch speakers do well with 300B amps as well. Lots of opinions and recommendations but in the end Ya just gotta listen to some. Trust your ears.

charles

Mr Rick · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Jan 2020, 05:42 pm »

If you choose to spend a bit more, you might consider the offerings from PrimaLuna.

sebrof · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Jan 2020, 05:53 pm »

I had KHorns at one point in the past. They sounded good with a 2A3 SET amp (~3 watts) in a small room. I also ran them with a PP EL34 amp (~100 watts) in the same room and they sounded good as well.

I have since moved on from KHorns, but I do run a bi-amped setup using a pair of Quicksilver Audio M-60 monoblocks for the woofers. I got them used for $900 and would recommend them. I see similar Quicksilver amps for sale used under $1K, so I believe one of the options you should consider.

My opinion for SET amps: For SET amps, particularly for the Directly Heated Triodes/DHTs (2A3, 300B), the output transformers are very important, and good ones are expensive. Cheaper options almost always cut $$ from the OPTs because many buyers are unaware. So if you are considering a cheap SET I would suggest either getting educated on what OPTs are good/bad, or avoid altogether.

borism · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Jan 2020, 06:31 pm »

Another SET path, if you don't mind DIY is going with a Bottlehead kit. I built the Stereomour - a 2A3 amplifier - and have been enjoying it for a few years now. Bottlehead makes a number of different SET amplifier kits. They come with excellent, very detailed build instruction and support. It was my first DIY build. Your speakers are way more efficient then mine and you should have no issues with low SET power ratings.

Good luck!

daledeee · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Jan 2020, 08:12 pm »

Thanks for the help. I have heard good things about many of the suggestions you gave me. I will continue to gather info. My problem is I don't live in a large population center so auditions are harder. My son lives in Chicago so that helps.

Tyson · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Jan 2020, 08:27 pm »

SET amps are nice, I have several, along with some pentode amps. One thing to keep in mind is that SET tubes are quite a bit more expensive than pentode tubes.

That's why I like the Dennis Had 'Inspire' amps so much - they get very close to an SET type sound, but using much cheaper pentode tubes.

BTW, Dennis Had is not just some anonymous amp builder. He founded and ran Cary Audio until his recent retirement. The 'Inspire' amps are his "fun retirement project" amps that he builds because he loves it.

bfstrysik · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Jan 2020, 10:10 pm »

Several very good suggestions have been offered. I recently moved into the SET arena. After SS high powered amps, tube pre and SS amp combos, Yaqin pp tube integrated, Rogue Cronos Magnum etc etc. Really like the SET sound. Currently running a pair of Bottlehead Paramount 300B mono blocks. Totally stock and approx 8 watts per channel.PLENTY loud enough with efficient speakers. Very revealing. If the recording is crappy, expect the music to sound lousy. Vocals, acoustic music etc sound very very real. They don't perform well with rock etc (IMHO). I would like to try a Dennis Had SEP to compare to the 300b. Probably need to move along some equipment before I add more.

. You indicated that your son is in Chicago. Where are you located. I am approx 50 miles south of Chicago.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Jan 2020, 10:35 pm »

My next amp was going to be a Dennis Had Inspire of some sort or the Musical Paradise 501. I will be going with the Musical Paradise as it's a high powered Single Ended Class A at 55 watts and I think it will give me all the magic I am looking for. Price is right as well but have to wait till stock comes in. It is an integrated though. Fine by me as it gives another volume option.

Musical Paradise link. http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=55

Rocket Ronny

sebrof · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Jan 2020, 11:59 pm »

Quote from: Rocket_Ronny on 2 Jan 2020, 10:35 pm

...the Musical Paradise 501. I will be going with the Musical Paradise as it's a high powered SET...
Musical Paradise link. http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=55

Rocket Ronny

Hi Ronny, the 501 may be a great amp and a good choice, but it is not a Single Ended Triode (SET) amp as it is neither single ended (it is push/pull) nor triode (it uses pentodes).
Just FYI

EDIT - It is single ended, my bad. But not SET since no triodes.
Sorry 'bout that.

daledeee · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Jan 2020, 12:00 am »

Dennis Had is selling some right now. People are bidding! Not sure what configuration.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Jan 2020, 02:02 am »

Quote

not a Single Ended Triode

Thanks for that. Yes, Single Ended Class A.

Since you are in the know. Can you explain to everyone the difference between SET and Single Ended. From what I know it has to do with how the signal goes through the tube, with SET being a simpler path and thus a more pure signal.

For me, the difference between SET and SE seems minor when compared to Push Pull. Wtih PP you get crossover distortion that flattens individual images. You do get a more agressive sound however which people can like.

Other important issue is that with Dennis Had you are supporting Made in the USA, which is important. Musical Paradise is designed in Canada, great for me as I am a Canadian, but made in Communist China. Oh, such is life. I did talk with Dennis one time for almost an hour. Great guy with an infectious enthusiasm.

Rocket Ronny

SET Man · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Jan 2020, 02:53 am »

Quote from: Rocket_Ronny on 3 Jan 2020, 02:02 am

Thanks for that. Yes, Single Ended Class A.

Since you are in the know. Can you explain to everyone the difference between SET and Single Ended. From what I know it has to do with how the signal goes through the tube, with SET being a simpler path and thus a more pure signal.

For me, the difference between SET and SE seems minor when compared to Push Pull. Wtih PP you get crossover distortion that flattens individual images. You do get a more agressive sound however which people can like.

Other important issue is that with Dennis Had you are supporting Made in the USA, which is important. Musical Paradise is designed in Canada, great for me as I am a Canadian, but made in Communist China. Oh, such is life. I did talk with Dennis one time for almost an hour. Great guy with an infectious enthusiasm.

Rocket Ronny

Hey!

SET or Single Ended Triode... the key is the "Triode"... the use of a single Triode tube. The simplest tube, actually the first tube used in amplification was a triode with only 3 electrodes. Any tridode tube like 300B tube still based on the first triode tube from the early 1900's.

SE or Single Ended tube amps can base on any tube like KT88 of which is tetrode and EL84 which is pentode but used as triode by wired it as triode disregarding the extra grids.

I'm not an expert on this so maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

By the way, EL84 in SE mode although with lower power, it is very sweet sounding... perhaps too sweet. I've heard that KT88 can sound great in SE mode also, I actually was considering it back then.

Buddy

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Jan 2020, 03:36 am »

How many Watts do you need?
Do you make a point in have a SET?
Your current speaker are permanent?
Or you change speakers frequently?

Tyson · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Jan 2020, 03:41 am »

Single Ended just means "not Push-Pull".

Pentodes or Triodes can be run single ended. They can also be run push pull.

A Triode is a tube with 3 elements in it. A pentode is a tube with 5 elements in it.

Does this help?

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Jan 2020, 04:01 am »

Single Ended just means "not Push-Pull".
The circuit is just a tool. SE mean better image, sound stage and harmonics a long fewer parts.
I suspect you own only SE amps.

Tyson · « **Reply #18 on:** 3 Jan 2020, 04:12 am »

Quote from: FullRangeMan on 3 Jan 2020, 04:01 am

Single Ended just means "not Push-Pull".
The circuit is just a tool. SE mean better image, sound stage and harmonics a long fewer parts.
I suspect you own only SE amps.

That's true, I only own single ended amps at the moment - 3 single ended triode amps and a pair of single ended pentode monoblocks.

Although I had a VTA ST70 using the octal board. It's push pull but really well executed. I sold it a while back and it's the only amp I've ever sold that I now miss

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #19 on:** 3 Jan 2020, 04:17 am »

PP tube amps have harmonics similar to SS amps.