[JLM]

Have heard dipoles (mostly O.B.) several times, including the Spatials over the past 20 years.  Some just don't like the Kool-Aid. 

Please keep an open mind.

[Shakeydeal]

I’d like to see the reception I’d get if I went in another manufacturers forum and took a big shit like you have. We are all welcome to post in any forum on the site, but most have better etiquette than you.

Shakey

[JLM]

Sorry if I offended.  My style, from decades around construction, is to be very direct and clear, perhaps forceful.

I asked a simple question, one that few others ask, but an important one that no one else has yet addressed.  Are not questions the beginning of wisdom?

I stated my opinions, based on nearly 50 years at this, and have been around the block.  Hopefully everyone realizes that Audio Circle, like most internet sites, is 90% shared opinions and 10% facts.  So take it all with a grain of salt. 

We've all seen fads, even cultish followings come and go before where rabid fans can't see or hear straight.  A couple of them have already been mentioned in this thread.  Typical audiophiles have just enough technical knowledge and an educated ear to get in seduced into running far afield. 

One of my good friend's favorite sayings is, "There is no perfect speaker."  BTW his guidance was the inspiration behind Hawthorne Audio (O.B. speakers).  I agree with him. 

[ric]

 (My style, from decades around construction, is to be very direct and clear, perhaps forceful)
Nope, again I disagree, as I also have worked decades in construction, blaming your vocation is a cop out--that's just who you are.
But you are entitled to ANY opinion you may have, forceful or otherwise.
I (and others) couldn't disagree more with your statements. Hopefully the guy that posted will make his own decision based on his own ears.

[Shakeydeal]

I know there are no perfect speakers. And I’ve been at this a long time too, just so you know. But the way you describe an OB speaker is just contrary to what I’ve experienced. And I’ve owned two OB designs and three pairs of Maggies. None were remotely close to your description. It really just sounds like you have an axe to grind. It’s ok if you don’t like spatial audio speakers, doesn’t offend me in the least.  But if you heard what you say you did, something was surely amiss.

IMHO, YMMV, and all the other disclaimers apply here..............

[Wind Chaser]

I owned khorns for two years.  Pulling them into the room kills the sound... Without it you miss an octave of bass and the tonal response is askew.

Hey Shakey,

No, it doesn’t kill the sound. 

I also owned a folded horns for two years and tried several positions in two different rooms. The ONLY reason for placing a so-called corner horn in a corner is for bass re-enforcement, but in my experience there are far better ways of addressing that issue than shoving a speaker into the worst possible location.

[Wind Chaser]

Please keep an open mind.

Jeff, I’m sure you’ve been into this hobby as long as anyone, but if the only impression you got from hearing OBs over the years is a smeared wall of sound, it just speaks to the fact that in all these years you’ve never heard an OB set up half way intelligently.

Far too many people in this hobby are too lazy and ignorant when it comes to coupling their speakers into the room. Some follow cookie cut formulas like Cardas or the simple equilateral triangle arrangement, which are both good “starting” points, but certainly not the last word on optimum ideal placement. In order to get a things to the highest level you have to listen carefully and experiment; that requires time and patience. I spent two months before I finalized my set up and it was well worth the effort.

Most people seem to unpack their speakers and merely place them where they look good. They might spend anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours moving them around a bit and that’s as far as it goes. I’m not saying it takes two months to get it right, but if one has an open mind as you say, and isn’t too lazy there’s far more potential waiting to be discovered. Even the most knowledgeable people I know will spend at least a few days looking to get it right.

I guarantee you the sound stage and imaging I get is at least every bit as precise as you get out of your commissioned single drivers. And as for bass, I dare say my OB bass is superior to anything you get out your boxes. You’re welcome to hear for yourself.

[Shakeydeal]

Hey Shakey,

No, it doesn’t kill the sound. 

I also owned a folded horns for two years and tried several positions in two different rooms. The ONLY reason for placing a so-called corner horn in a corner is for bass re-enforcement, but in my experience there are far better ways of addressing that issue than shoving a speaker into the worst possible location.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Most other speakers, yes, out into the room. Klipschorns even with enclosed backs are still going to sound better in close proximity to a corner. Even in this position they can float an image into the room rivaling other conventional speakers.

[gab]

This thread reminds me of one a year ago when Jeff trashed the Bryston Active speaker system in the Bryston circle:

+1!  Passives sound muddy, muted, and dull compared to my JBL 708P 2-way monitors (constant directivity tweeter, 8" ported woofer, lots of built in controls, $4000/pair USD MSRP).  At age 62 they are my "last great" speakers.

The Bryston active approach that uses external amps is crude, expensive, complex, and bulky, so yes I don't see it gaining wide spread popularity.  But even typical active monitors with built-in amps and no speaker cables may never become the norm for audiophiles to satisfy the urge to keep hunting, have a large trophy case (equipment rack full of big expensive gear) to show off, and the general human tendency for lust.  Typical "all-in-one" active monitors don't address any of those traits. 

Note that not all active speakers use DSP.  Analog versions of DSP would be massively inefficient (big, expensive, power hungry, and have limited abilities).  The trend now for all digital systems is to go to software based DSP (such as REW or Dirac Live) where you have graphics and full control.

[Mr Rick]

These forums would be mighty quiet without the ' spirited discussions '. 

[pompon]

I have both OB and mid-tower bass reflex.

They both give the same soundstage.
- The sound is formed behind speakers
- When I look one speaker, nothing seem to come from there (almost)
- The depth go to the front wall and and inside (illusion).
- I ear the different layer in the music

You can't compare 6 inch driver to 15 inch driver. They fill the room differently, they focus differently, they not snap at the same frequency ...

With OB, I have a better sense of "live music" and never have exagerated bass note like box speaker. With EQ you can fix a part of it but the music will never be "as free" as played through OB.

[FullRangeMan]

''exagerated bass'' is a bless few can afford in this era of pocket monitors.

[Wind Chaser]

Here’s another way to wrap ones head around the sound of OB's vs box speakers. Listen to closed back headphones and then open back. As with loudspeakers the difference is apparent and most people prefer the sound of the open back.

The idea that OB bass is inferior or the sound is smeared is not true at all. It’s quite the opposite, really. Bass is much cleaner and loads the room much better. The soundstage opens up and everything sounds more natural.

[SnowPuppy77]

Here’s another way to wrap ones head around the sound of OB's vs box speakers. Listen to closed back headphones and then open back. As with loudspeakers the difference is apparent and most people prefer the sound of the open back.

The idea that OB bass is inferior or the sound is smeared is not true at all. It’s quite the opposite, really. Bass is much cleaner and loads the room much better. The soundstage opens up and everything sounds more natural.

Very well put Wind Chaser.  I actually used the open back headphone comparison when I was on the phone with Clayton.  I have some good closed back headphones and their bass does sound more reinforced compared to my open backs.  But I typically get more natural detailed bass from equivalent priced open backs.  And the sound stage on the open backs is much better.  My M3S speakers however have bass like a high end open back headphone.  I am getting meatiness and powerful dynamic punch and thrust.  Also getting voluptuous enveloping bass when the music calls for it.  Box speakers that I have heard at the price of the M3S and considerably higher that do an admirable job with bass still have significant issues with smearing from the vibrationally energized box.  In fact I heard a $25k pair of speakers at RMAF from a highly regarded brand that makes their own drivers that had a very open sound stage in the mids and highs but when some powerful upright bass joined the mix everyone turned their head directly to the speakers.  The bass was congested anchored to the box.  Part of what made it so noticeable was the sound stage contrast of the bass compared openness of mids and highs.  Now I have heard tower box speakers that do well in this regard but they are usually very expensive (e.g. Rockports, Magico).  I also have a pair of monitors, Usher Beryllium  Dancers, that do a good job detaching the bass from the box.  They have very detailed good quality bass.  These Ushers benefit from having a smaller box which is very heavy and rigid.  But still the bass on the M3S sounds just as detailed, much more open, more properly to scale, much more powerful, much fuller and enveloping.

[Audiosaurusrex]

I received my delivery confirmation for my M3's for Friday.    I am new to OB's and am very excited to hear what you all are talking about. I have had Vandersteens and Aerials and look forward to doing some comparisons. Thanks for all your great comments and Happy New Year!

[Shakeydeal]

Congrats. I think you are going to be very pleased.

Shakey

[Audiosaurusrex]

Thanks Shakey,
Great way to start the new year! I’ll post some pics. I think the greatest thing about this other than the listening is having great people to share this with. Happy New Year Everyone!

[SnowPuppy77]

Thanks Shakey,
Great way to start the new year! I’ll post some pics. I think the greatest thing about this other than the listening is having great people to share this with. Happy New Year Everyone!

Which finish did you get?

[sonicxtc]

I'm not an open baffle expert, but I've had Hawthorne Trio Sterling Silver SSI speakers [that's a full coaxial and TWO augie sub-woofers for EACH speaker] open baffle speakers for a few years now. I've owned at least a dozen to twenty variations of floorstanders, 2 ways, monitors, etc. over the decades. Owning a pair of Klipsch Fortes with a tremendously customized crossover that I built really taught me the value of great bass and DYNAMICS.

I knew my next speaker would have to present such dynamics. Well, I can say the Hawthorne open baffle speakers present dynamic contrasts in a thrilling manner. The bass is deep, powerful and involving in a way I've never heard before. I think open baffle bass needs to be heard to be appreciated.

I hope to follow this thread and everyone's OB adventures.

Good luck. Enjoy your speakers in the new DECADE!

Thank you to everyone at AUDIOCIRCLE.

[Audiosaurusrex]

Snowpuppy
I asked Clayton to give me a lighter Sepele to match my teak audio rack. I’m really excited to see the look!