[TKonrad.NOLA]

Debating getting myself one for Christmas

[Phil_S]

A machine, not necessarily...however you do need a way to clean your disks, new or old.  Clean records allow the needle and record to last longer and in many cases sound better. Price ranges from a few bucks to thousands.  There's a ton of information here and on other venues.  Do the research, don't rush, have fun!

[SteveFord]

Do it, you won't be sorry.

[TKonrad.NOLA]

looking at the okki nokki and the Project.   Thoughts?

[toocool4]

Yes it’s a must. I would avoid the Okki nokki or the project, they are just too noisy when you have to clean many records you will soon find them irritable.
I have a Loricraft PRC3 and I have had it for well over 10 years, best investment I ever made for my record playing.

[Stu Pitt]

I put off buying one for quite some time because IMO they’re way too expensive. Then I found the KAB USA EV-1. It’s basically a manual Nitty Gritty without an internal vacuum. Connect your own vacuum and save quite a bit of money. I’ve never had any water get into the vacuum, and I’ve had it for about 11 years. It’s quite easy to use - attach your vacuum, apply fluid, brush and turn the record simultaneously. No frills, no gimmicks.

Whatever machine you go with, a cleaning machine is essential. If I got the same results with something triple the price, I wouldn’t complain. It’s a solid investment.

https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/ev1.htm

[S Clark]

I put off buying one for quite some time because IMO they’re way too expensive. Then I found the KAB USA EV-1. It’s basically a manual Nitty Gritty without an internal vacuum...
Whatever machine you go with, a cleaning machine is essential. If I got the same results with something triple the price, I wouldn’t complain. It’s a solid investment.

https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/ev1.htm

I second the KAB USA EV-1 as getting very good production for the $$ spent.  But if you can do a bit of DIY, build an ultrasonic.  It's a very real step up in getting rid of the last bit of tics and pops. 
But in answer to your question, are cleaning machines a must?? Only if you have vinyl.

[twitch54]

But in answer to your question, are cleaning machines a must?? Only if you have vinyl.

agreed and if anybody says that cleaning records is just part of the 'euphoric experiences' of vinyl I'll puke ! Therefore, buy or make one and be done with it.

[rollo]

  Yes a thorough Ultrasonic cleaning once, then simple cleaning after. All new LPs benefit as well. If you buy used a definite must. After cleaning the LP the stylus and cant. need attention as well. You cannot believe the dirt on the cant.
  Perter Lederman at VPI headquarters one afternoon showed us a Cant. and stylus under a microscope. Ugly it was, then he used a magic eraser to clean it. Then we saw the result .Clean as babies arse. Peter just dropped the Cart on the eraser twice.


charles

[charmerci]

Anyone have or know about the Record Doctor one?


It seems to me that if you're going to have a somewhat extensive record collection that something like this would be a minimum.

[Not Insane]

Debating getting myself one for Christmas

I used to sell hi-fi in the 70's and erly 80's. I have over 3,000 LP's. I've never even considered a record cleaner. They were a rich man's toy.

However...

I also never thought I was missing out having a car without air conditioning either, and back then there were still a lot of people without indoor plumbing and they got along fine.

Thing is, it is cheaper than it used to be (relative to the cost of living) and, if you have the budget, a kind of nice thing. No, I still don't have one because I use those flat paint trim brushes and water and it works out perfectly. But I'm from the days when people even made their own clothes. We're in a different century now. You might find that it is worth it though, truth be told, they are not necessary (but they are really convenient).

Do you have the budget and the room for it? Then you'll love it.

[vinyl_guy]

An absolute must IMO. I have owned 3 different machines. Started with the VPI HW-17. sold it and bought a Loricraft PRC 3. Sill own the Loricraft and added the Audio Desk pro ultrasonic. With used records I pre-clean with the Loricraft and then a final cleaning with the Ultrasonic. New records go to the Ultrasonic. as others have said, if you are serious about vinyl and/or have an extensive collection, a cleaning machine is a must. If you can't afford a machine, buy the spin clean. More labor intensive, but does a decent job.

[toocool4]

One thing that no one has said is, once you have cleaned the record place it in a new anti-static sleeve. I clean every record before it goes anywhere near my turntable, be it new or used.

Every used record once cleaned goes into a brand new anti-static sleeve no good putting a clean record back into a dirty sleeve. New records that I don’t like the sleeve it came in goes into a new anti-static sleeve too.

[pconley2]

I wanted to add my thoughts on the Kirmess Record cleaning system, I first posted this on Steve Hoffman's forum.  Kirmess has gone up in price since I bought mine (currently around $900), also Music Direct has a new Ultrasonic cleaner called a Degritter ($2990).  would love to hear from anyone who has tried one.
=========================================================
I have had my Kirmuss Record Cleaning system for about a month and I thought I would give everyone a few of my thoughts. To get the headline out of the way, I am conflicted about what this system can do for my records. To be clear, it does clean the records but the time and effort it takes is significant.

Kirmuss, himself, makes the distinction between record cleaning and record restoration. To him, a restored record is one that has had removed all of the “grunge”, extra added crap and other detritus that has accumulated in the groves ever since, and including, the record manufacturing process. A “clean” record is one that has been cleaned, but not gone through the entire record restoration process.

I am pleased with records that I have “restored” and not totally pleased with records that I have merely “cleaned”. The difference being whether I have used the total system that Kirmuss recommends which includes:

· Running the record through the kirmuss cycle once without using his surfactant

· Running the record through, with the surfactant, multiple times until the “white foam” ceases to show (or at least is greatly reduced indicating that there is no more “grunge” in the groves)

· Running the record through the system one more time, without surfactant, to rinse off all excess grunge or surfactant,

· spraying the record with Distilled Water as a final cleaning, and then drying the record with lint free cloth, polishing it with supplied brush and then putting just a hint of surfactant on the record while it turns on the Turntable.

Each cycle through the kirmuss takes about 5 minutes (you can adjust time up and down by minutes), so to do the full Kirmuss Restoration process, as outlined above, takes 7 or so cycles which means that you have dedicated 30-35 minutes to clean/restore one record, or two if you put two records in at a time.

My results with the full process have been mixed. There is no doubt that the records come out clean, but how to be certain that you have run the record through the cycles a sufficient number of times seems to have eluded me to date. White Foam seems to be a given and I never have reached a point where I didn’t have some white foam (even after 7-12 washings). All of my records were bought new by me, so I am not cleaning used records about which I have no knowledge, these were all new in shrink wrap when I bought them. At times I wonder if the foam was the result of the bubbles in the surfactant rather than grunge coming from grooves, but I have no way to test that.

An interesting problem that is also surfacing is that my stylus is getting really gunged up, which never happened before I started using the Kirmuss—this indicates to me that after many cleanings, stuff is still left in the groove and is being picked up by the stylus, which I would have thought the many cleaning and final rinse, splash with Distilled Water and drying would have removed.

Having said all of this, I do hear more deeply into the music, I have more “space” around the instruments and I have less noise (or perhaps deeper black background) that the record had before the restoration process. I have an early Mofi of John Klemmer’s Touch, that has always had some noise as well as unwelcome upper frequency edge. Many think this is true of most of Mofi’s early records. Mine now sounds cleaner/less noisy but more interestingly, it also has a better bottom and less edgy highs. If this is true, and I will try this on other early Mofi’s, this could really help those important records sound better. (Important because they were very early attempts to create better sounding vinyl)

So I continue to use the system, but my original goal of having an ultrasonic cleaning system that I could use once to “clean” a record has not been met. I am not happy with the results that I have gotten with that method, especially since those records seems to be one source of the gunk that accumulates on my stylus, which indicates that cleaning once only loosens the gunk, which then gets picked up by the stylus. Which means that I then have to submit that record to the very time-consuming record restoration process.

I am not sure if this problem is with the message or the messenger, by that I mean, I am not sure if I am using the system correctly, how to gauge when a record is truly cleaned, and how to “clean” a record rather than running it through the 20-35 minute restore process.

Lastly, the system runs quite hot, there is a very clear temperature gauge which lets you know when the water is getting too hot to be used. Having said that, it seems to take about 30-35 minutes to get too hot, which is roughly the equivalent time it takes to fully restore one record. Meaning that after every record restoring session, you have to turn the system off for 10-15 minutes. Doing the math, it means I can clean 1-2 records every hour, and given the number of records I have, I will be doing this for a very long time.

Lastly, there is the question of water management. Kirmuss says that you should empty and clean your system every night, and that you should never reuse water. This means that every time/day that you use this system, you have to dispose of 1 ¾ gallons of distilled water and replace with another 1 ¾ gallons of distilled water. My friends who have other Ultrasonic systems replace their water once a week and never have to remove it at night. Distilled Water is not very expensive but it is bulky and heavy to bring back from the store. Again, I may be mis-reading the instructions but I would think that water should be able to stay in the system overnight and certainly should be reusable for a few days if not a week.

This long dissertation is my way of saying that the Kirmuss system is not a KLAudio killer for one fifth the price, but it is a very interesting tool, but it is a tool that takes some getting used to. It demands that you think about what you are trying to accomplish and whether that can be accomplished by this tool within the time frame that you would expect that accomplishment to be achieved.

As I said at the beginning, my results are mixed but they are sufficiently interesting that I will continue to use the system, I just have to be very proscriptive about which records I value sufficiently to justify the time and effort it takes to go through the process.

[vinyl_guy]

One thing that no one has said is, once you have cleaned the record place it in a new anti-static sleeve. I clean every record before it goes anywhere near my turntable, be it new or used.

Every used record once cleaned goes into a brand new anti-static sleeve no good putting a clean record back into a dirty sleeve. New records that I don’t like the sleeve it came in goes into a new anti-static sleeve too.

I agree and this is what I do. I use the Diskkeeper Ultimate Audiophile inner sleeve.

[S Clark]

pconley2, 
That's quite an involved process just to do an ultrasonic cleaning, and there are several points that seem to be questionable. 
It's ridiculous to think that a 6 liters of water should be disposed after cleaning 1 record or 5 records.  After 20-25, yeah, change it out.  Think about the low amount of solids being dispersed in such a large amount of fluid.  I find one exception... cigarette smoke can really pollute your fluid. 
Foam??? Using water, alcohol, and surfectant I've never seen anything that resembles foam.  Make your own fluid.  That will also get rid of crap piling up on your stylus.
Multiple passes?  I've run a record through twice on perhaps 2 occasions out of probably a thousand cleanings.  I set mine for a three minute clean at 3 rpm rotatioin. 
Heat? My unit has variable heat that I never use. 
One thing I do differently that I think improves my cleaning is to dry the LP on a vacuum immediately.  I use a Nitty Gritty, but a KAB USA EV1 is basically the same unit. 
Now my unit is a basic ultrasonic operating at usual ultrasonic cleaning frequencies.  Kirmuss states they have a wave of "plasma" pulsing through their medium, which is remarkable, cough bullshit cough. 
Try some different fluid and vacuum dry and I think you'll see faster and better results. 
Oh, and complete agree on new sleeves.

[BobM]

Some kind of cleaning is necessary if you buy used dollar store records. New records benefit also, but not as much, obviously.

You can go the easy and relatively cheap hand wash route using Disk Doctor brushes and fluid. They are very good and get the job done.

But a record cleaning machine like those made by VPI with a vacuum is the real way to go. More expensive but if you have an extensive collection then it is a good investment. I still use the disk Doctor brushes and fluid with my VPI. Much better then what comes with it.

[orthobiz]

Yes.

Paul

[Elizabeth]

I have owned LPs since 1965. At a peak I owned 13,000. Now I own about 2800.
I have cleaned a few Lps in the kitchen sink. I like to use my 12 amp vacuum cleaner with a brush a save just for LPs.
Mpst Lps I do not clean. Most of my Lps were bought USED.
If they are dusty, the vacuum cleaner does a good job, then an old carbon fiber Oracle record brush I got free.
Only if they have dripped on, or some sort of crusty stuff, goo in the grooves do I wash them in the sink. The whole washing thing....?? I can pass. I HAD a free Nitty GrittyI THREW OUT since it was noisy and a PITA to fool around with.
SO I am in the 'why bother with a record cleaning machine ...camp. Maybe you like them. I am happy as is.

[Not Insane]

I have had my Kirmuss Record Cleaning system for about a month and I thought I would give everyone a few of my thoughts.
...

Yep. The effort thing matters to me. Sometimes I say, "Hey, if I want to really spend the time to do it right, just use titebond II wood glue.

But it's a lot of work.