Salkstream III not backing up to external HD as thought...eek!!!

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Saturn94

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Help!  :o  My apologies for the long post....

Out of curiosity I was looking at the System Info using the web browser access to the Salkstream III.  Under Disk Usage, I noticed that the internal drive, /dev/sda1, is 59% full whereas the connected external USB HHD, /dev/sdb1, is only 6% full.  I thought this very strange since given the size of my music file, the internal drive seemed too full and the external file too empty. The external drive is for backup of my music as well as for Roon database (Roon is set to automatically backup to the external drive once a week).

Plugging the external drive into my Window 10 PC instead of the Salkstream,  I can see a file for Music, but it appears to not have been updated since 2016!!!  I then checked the files on the Salkstream internal drive and I see there are two Music files, one located at SPLAYER > music, and the second at SPLAYER > mnt > music.  So I guess this means that when I've been doing backups, it's been backing up to another folder on the internal drive instead of the external drive?  I can also see the Roon backup folder on the external drive, which appears to be current.

Prior to the time I set up Roon to automatically back up to the external drive, I followed the backup instructions in the Salkstream manual with no issue.  After I set up Roon to automatic backup (in 2016?), when I typed the command to mount the external drive, it would tell me it is already mounted, so I just proceeded with the music backup command and everything seem to go normal.  It didn't occur to me until now that it wasn't backing up to the external drive.

Going through the manual instructions again to make sure I've been doing it correctly, I get this message when I type mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt

Mount is denied because the NTFS volume is already exclusively opened.  The volume may be already mounted, or another software may use it which could be identified for example by the help of the 'fuser' command


I'm guessing Roon Backup is preventing me from backing up my music to the external drive?

I would greatly appreciate any help getting my music properly backed up to the external drive (as well as Roon).  I'm a bit freaked out that my music collection hasn't been backing up to the external drive for 3 years!  :o :duh:  Thank goodness I have an additional backup on my Windows PC.

Thank you in advance.  :)
« Last Edit: 2 Dec 2019, 03:46 am by Saturn94 »

jsalk

Here is what I imagine is happening...

When you insert the internal drive into the StreamPlayer, it is likely mounting it automatically (and not mounting it at /mnt).  If you looked at the root directory, you would likely see a directory called "media."  This is likely where the drive is mounted.

So to mount it at /mnt, you would have to unmount it from its initial location and re-mount it to /mnt.  Here is how...

Prior to attempting to mount the drive to /mnt, run the following command:  umount /dev/sdb1  (there is no "n" in the umount command).  Then issue the "mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt" command.  You should not get that error message this time.

What happens when you fail to mount the drive on the /mnt directory is that you are backing up to that directory on the main drive.  So you are basically copying files to the same drive, not the USB backup drive.

If you would like to clean out the /mnt directory and reclaim the space your internal backup takes up, you can issue the following commands:

cd / (this takes you to the root directory)
rm -R /mnt (erases the /mnt directory and its contents)
mkdir /mnt (re-creates an empty /mnt directory you can mount to)

One other note:  Roon backup, to my knowlegde, does not back up your music.  It only backs up Roon files and the Roon database.

I hope this helps.  Let me know if it does not.

- Jim


Saturn94

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Thanks Jim.  I’ll give that a try this evening.  :D

Yes,  I do understand Roon does not backup my music files.  :wink:

I’ll let you know how it goes.

Saturn94

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Hi Jim.

I did as you instructed and was able unmount and remount the external drive without any error messages.  I also was able delete the duplicate music files on the internal drive under the /mnt directory.  :thumb:

I issued the music backup command and it’s currently backing up, I assume, to the external drive.  I’ll be able to check after it finishes (may take awhile since it appears the music folder on the external drive hasn’t been updated in 3 years  :duh: ).

After this is done, do I need to do anything in Roon settings to assure it continues automatic database backups to the external drive?  Can I just leave the external drive “mounted” so next time I want to back up the music files I can just log in Tera Term and issue the music backup command, or do I have to “mount” the external drive each time I do a music backup?  Does rebooting the Salkstream cause the drive to “unmount”, requiring re-mounting after bootup?  Does any of this affect Roon’s autobackup feature?  Sorry for all the questions, I’m trying to understand how this works.

Thank you again for your help.  I’m keeping your post for future reference.  :thumb:

jsalk

After the unit is finished backing up, I would run the rsync command again just to make sure all the files were backed up.  They should be, but this would insure that was the case.  Then, in the future, you will only have to back up incremental changes using the rsync command.

When you reboot the StreamPlayer, it will mount the drive just as it did before (not /mnt).  Which means you would have to unmount and remount to the /mnt directory.  If you don't want to do that, you can determine where it is mounting after a reboot and change the rsync command to point to that directory rather than the /mnt directory.

So, the question is, where does it automatically mount?  If you simply enter "mount" by itself, it will show you a list of all of the mounts at that point in time.  In the resulting list, you would be looking for /dev/sdb1 and see what directory that mount points to.  It would likely be something like /media/name-of-usb-drive with your music files in that directory. 

If you successfully find the directory it automatically mounts to, you can use that in place of the /mnt part of the rsync command.  Also, you can use Settings/Backup within Roon to browse for this location and set backup to point to that new location.  That way, you won't have to unmount and remount in the future.

If this seems beyond your pay grade and you do want to do it, we could do a TeamViewer session and I can set it up for you.

- Jim

Saturn94

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Thanks for additional info/explanation.  I’ll see if I can do it myself this weekend. If I hit a wall,  I”ll let you know. :D

This morning after music backup ran overnight, I checked the drive space on the internal and external drive and they look right now.  :thumb:

ds376

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This is why Salk has one of the best reputations in the industry. A quick response with clear instructions, from the owner of the company.

Saturn94

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Hi Jim.

After rebooting the Salkstream, when I enter the "mount" command, I can see the external drive (/dev/sdb1) does mount to /media/Seagate Backup Plus, just like you said.

However, when I try to do a music backup substituting /media/Seagate Backup Plus  for /mnt, using the command rsync -avrz /music /media/Seagate Backup Plus (I also tried a space between /media and /Seagate Backup Plus), it creates a new folder on the internal drive and wants to create a whole new duplicate backup instead of just doing an incremental backup to the existing music backup file on the external drive.  I can't seem to get the command right  to get it to do an incremental backup to the existing music backup file on the external drive.

Looking at the Salkstream files via my Windows PC, I can see where the external drive (sdb1) is mounted to /media, and I can see the backup files on the external drive.  The backup music file is at SPLAYER > media > Seagate Backup Plus > music.

Am I using the wrong incremental backup command?

Since I always leave the external backup drive connected to the Salkstream, it would be nice to know how to do music backups (and automatic Roon database backups) without having to unmount and mount the drive each time, even if the Salkstream is rebooted (on purpose or due to power outage).

PS - With the external drive mounted at /media, there’s no problem with doing Roon database backups to the external drive (I just tested it).

Also, if it helps, here's a shot from Tera Term showing where the external drive is mounted after rebooting the Salkstream






I also noticed when looking at the /media directory, Seagate Backup Plus is shown with a ' on each end (ie; 'Seagate Backup Plus' instead of just Seagate Backup Plus).  Do the ' marks on each end make a difference?




« Last Edit: 4 Dec 2019, 03:31 am by Saturn94 »

Saturn94

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This is why Salk has one of the best reputations in the industry. A quick response with clear instructions, from the owner of the company.

 :thumb:

Saturn94

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UPDATE

I did some searching on Google and found the issue was due to the spaces in the file name Seagate Backup Plus.  The apostrophes bracketing the file name (as shown in the /media directory screen shot) are required for Linux to see it as a single file name.  Once I bracketed the file name like in the screenshot, the incremental backup worked as it should.  Yay!

In my search, I also discovered something else.  Using the command rsync -avrz /music /media/'Seagate Backup Plus', rsync only adds files to the destination folder that have been added to the origination folder.  It does not remove any files/folders that have been removed from the origination folder prior to running the incremental backup command.

To test this, I added a folder named TEST under my original Music folder.  I then ran rsync, and sure enough it added the TEST folder to the backup copy.  I then deleted the TEST folder from the origination Music folder, then ran rsync again.  The TEST folder was not removed and remained in the backup copy.  This means that anything I've deleted from the original Music folder has never been removed from the backup copy.

Is there a way to have rsync remove any files from the backup copy that have been removed from the original copy each time a backup is performed so that both copies remain the same each time a backup is performed?  What would that command line be?

Thanks.  :D 
« Last Edit: 6 Dec 2019, 04:22 pm by Saturn94 »

srb

Is there a way to have rsync remove any files from the backup copy that have been removed from the original copy each time a backup is performed so that both copies remain the same each time a backup is performed?  What would that command line be?
Add the --delete option

rsync -avrz --delete /music /media/'Seagate Backup Plus'

Saturn94

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Add the --delete option

rsync -avrz --delete /music /media/'Seagate Backup Plus'

Thanks! :D

kneat

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Can someone point me to instructions for setting up my Salk Stream III to auto backup to external HD as Saturn94 has done? Thanks

Saturn94

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Can someone point me to instructions for setting up my Salk Stream III to auto backup to external HD as Saturn94 has done? Thanks

Are you looking to auto backup your Roon database or music files?

To set up auto backup for Roon database, it’s easily done in Roon Settings > Backups.  I can post pics if needed.

Unfortunately, I don’t know how to setup automatic backups for music files.  Someone who speaks Linux will need to help with that.  The procedure described in earlier posts has to be initiated manually each time you want to do a music file backup, which is ok with me since my music folder doesn’t change often.

Saturn94

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UPDATE (ANOTHER ISSUE....UGH!)

So adding the --delete command, I now seem to having rsync running as desired to the external drive.

I thought at this point everything was ok, but when I opened Roon, Roon is now reporting I have double the number of albums and tracks I had before!  :scratch:

Apparently, the other day when I was trying to get rsync to backup to the external drive instead of the internal drive, it created a new folder called "Media" under the "Music" folder (SPLAYER > Music is the Roon Watched folder) on the internal drive:



Roon seems to be reading this new "Media" folder as another set of albums and tracks, hence why it's reporting double the number of albums and tracks I actually have.  Note the file path on each album it's showing here:




The top one is the correct path (splayer > music > Jim > ABBA > Arrival).  The bottom one is the new/extra one that somehow got created when I was trying to fix the backup issue (splayer > music > media > Seagate Backup Plus > music > Jim > ABBA > Arrival).

I tried to delete the new/extra "Media" folder, but I get this message (I get the same message if I try to view the contents);

"Windows cannot access \\SPLAYER\Music\Media.  You do not have permission to access \\SPLAYER\Music\Media.  Contact Network Administrator to request access."

Interestingly, when I hover the curser over that Media folder, a little box comes up that says the file is empty, but obviously Roon is reading this file as having music files in it.


Btw, this extra "Media" folder also got backed up to the external drive when I ran rsync today:




I also cannot delete the extra Music folder (splayer > media > music) created here on the internal drive, again, when I was trying to get rsync to backup to the external drive;




How do I get rid of these extra folders?  I know I can change the Roon watched folders to ignore the extra Media folder, but I'd rather get rid of these unneeded folders if possible to avoid any possible confusion in the future (and I'm plenty confused right now!).







Saturn94

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My apologies for the multiple posts.  I'm trying to learn this stuff as well as clean up the mess I made.  :oops:

I did a Google search and found info on deleting directories and their contents in Linux Arch.  However, I would like to confirm this is correct before I do anything and create a bigger mess :duh:

Once I log into the Salkstream using Tera Term I get this screen:



At this prompt, is this the command I would entered to delete the extra "Music" folder (under the Media folder) and it's contents (spaces exaggerated for clarity)?

rm    -r    /media/music

And is this the command to remove the extra Media folder (under the Music folder) and it's contents (again, spaces exaggerated for clarity)?

rm    -r    /music/media

OR

Do I go to this prompt:


then enter rm -r /music

and here:



then enter rm -r /media



Will I have an issue removing the Media folder that gives me the "...cannot access..." message when I try to view or delete if from my Windows PC?

I greatly appreciate the help!  :D


EDIT:  More research on Google.....it looks like using the second set of options I would not use "/" in front of the folder name.  So it would be rm -r music and rm -r media.  Is this correct?  I noticed in the last screenshot the folder named "Media" is in white rather than in color like the other folders.  Does this have some special meaning (cannot delete perhaps)?
« Last Edit: 6 Dec 2019, 10:07 pm by Saturn94 »

Saturn94

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UPDATE:

Ok, after a bunch of Googling, I got brave (or impatient and stupid :o ) enough to give deleting folders (called directories in Linux speak?) a try.

In Tera Term, navigating to splayer /media prompt, I typed in rm -r music and hit enter.  I did the same for splayer /music (typed rm -r media).  Checking the Salkstream on my Windows PC the unwanted files were gone!  :thumb:

I then ran a new backup of the Music directory on the internal drive to the external drive, and now the unwanted Media folder (now gone) that was under the Music folder on the internal drive is no longer on the backup drive either!  :thumb:

Now Roon reports my library accurately again.  :thumb:

Ugh, my brain hurts now.  :icon_frown:  I think this week I advanced 1 paygrade though.  :green:

If there is anything I did wrong here or any additional advice anyone has to share I would love your feedback!


Paul K.

I know, I'm an old fuddy-duddy, but I'm so happy that when I want to listen seriously to some music, all I have to do his choose a CD from my collection, put it into my CD player and press "play".  :lol:
Paul

Saturn94

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I know, I'm an old fuddy-duddy, but I'm so happy that when I want to listen seriously to some music, all I have to do his choose a CD from my collection, put it into my CD player and press "play".  :lol:
Paul

I hear you, Paul!  :lol: :lol:  :lol:

It is times like this I think the same thing!  I never have issues with my trusty Rotel CD player. :D

This damn “computer audio” and Roon thing has made me so lazy (one finger access to my entire music collection.)  :lol:

Too late, though.  I’m hooked on the convenience and great SQ of the Salkstream/Roon.  Fortunately, issues haven’t been common.