[Jay S]

According to the specs on Apple's website, the Mac Mini's DVI video output allow digital resolutions up to 1920 x 1200 pixels.  It goes on to say that it supports coherent digital displays up to 154MHz, and non-coherent digital displays up to 135MHz (whatever on earth that means).  For analog VGA video output, resolutions up to 1920 x 1080 pixels is supported.

Many current LCD and plasma TV models have DVI input.  In terms of resolution, a Sharp 32" LCD is 1366x768.  An HD Pioneer plasma is 1024x768.  So, it seems that either of these could be driven by the digital or analog video output of the Mac Mini (?).  Am I overlooking something?

[windwaves]

well, if that is what is written there then it is probably true, and I am no expert here.  Nevertheless just think about Apple's own 30" HD display: it requires a large, kick-ass graphic card (that is what ...$500 or more, can't recall).  So, I would be curious, but it does look like you might be able to use the mini for a large plasma as well.

[EchiDna]

those 'large kick-ass graphics cards' are all the same size AFAIK

and the higher end ones all generate a LOT of heat... you might just warp your mini into a sodden pile of burning plastic if you drive the graphics hard... and be aware, the higher end graphics cards have noisy fans - very noisy fans... stock the mini has low to very low end graphics capabilities when compared to anything built for the purpose over the past 3-4 years! - it is a weak point along with the standard memory and HDD...
I have a raedon 8500 pro built in 1999 that has 128mb of memory onboard - the mini has only 32mb and is the same generation of chipset! capabilities have improved since then!


lets not start on the standard audio capabilities either
it's aftermarket USB peripherals or none.

I'm not anti mac - but you will end up paying a lot more than the stock price to get the mini to perform as well as a standard mac desktop that could be 2-3 years old with memory, graphics and HDD upgrades that you can do yourself!

nobody doubts apple's capacity for marketing skill - but this one has me beat - old tech stuffed into a little sexy box and calling it new and cheap and the people fall all over themselves to get one!

[Brad]

Apple's 30" display has a resolution of 2560x1600, which is why it takes the dual input to drive it.

[Bemopti123]

Cannot expect the Mini to do much more than just fill the bill for those who want to either surf the net without the worry of bugs or organize their pics and their songs through Itunes.  I highly doubt that anyone who purchases the mini beyond these expectations will be into getting the 30" Cinema screen  .  As someone else has pointed out, it seems as if the anemic graphics card with 32 MB ram might be workable with a low end of regular resolution flatscreen such as those that Sharp offers.  Obviously, the little cutie box is not meant to overthrow the graphics expertise of their higher prices and double deckec siblings, the dual G5 towers, but thanks to that someone who analyzed it, it will do with regular screens.  Better than nothing and at $599 investment, without having to deal with the aggravation of viruses and crashing rebooting etc...., it might be a good bargan indeed.  

No one who is into serious computing will consider the Mini a replacement for more powerful computers, but I suspect there will be many who will buy the unit as a companion for their favorite player and software, both Apple designed.  

I am slowly and steadily turning my head towards either a 12-15" Powerbook.  

Any notebook users found any issues with DEAD PIXELS?  What is this issue about?  I seen it often referred to in Ebay listings "Totally visually inspected and to be found free of DEAD PIXELS."  How do these happen and why?  

from NYC

[SET Man]

Hey! Bemopti123. So, you really going to switch camp eh? Still deciding which one to get? When I saw the Mini on the Apple's site the first time I thought it would be perfect for students, kid, web surfer and other alike. But personally I feel that the Mini is very limited in performance and definately won't do it for me.

Well,I'm very happy with my 1ghz G4 12" powerbook. Okay, about the dead pixels. I'm not really worry about it. One of the photographer I work for, she had been using old 800mhz powerbook for many years. I'm not sure how long but I think at least 5 years and using it and left is on most of the time during the day. Still it perform perfectly, screen still fine.

Anyway, I think we are forgeting something here. Apple also have the eMac. Similar to the first iMac with built in CRT monitor, I think they are 17" flat screen now. I don't know much about it but they seem pretty good.  If you don't need to carry you computer around then this might be good for you. And don't forget to check out the refurbished one (mine is) this should save you a some money.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71501/wo/BH5nIOBCMNCi3wIpSSZ8gwBW6y4/0.0.11.1.0.6.21.1.3.1.1.0.0.1.0[/url]

Goodluck,
Buddy

[John Ashman]

The Mac Mini kicks the hell out of my 2 year old $1800 machine and is better in most ways than my new iBook.  And it seems to certainly beat out that 1GHz laptop you have, SET.  This year's pathetic, wimpy entry-level machine beats the tar out of most any top-end machine from a year ago, so I don't see how the Mini is so intensely "limited".  It's small, it's not crippled.

[suits_me]

>so I don't see how the Mini is so intensely "limited". It's small, it's not crippled.

The argument made in the thread, which you don't address, is that the Mini comes with insufficient or barely acceptable RAM, a really slow hard drive, no Airport and limited expandability relative to desktops. Your dealer must fix these Jobs-typical limitations, bringing the price into ranges of better Apple machines, like the new iMacs.

Do you disagree with this assessment in any specific way?

However, it would still be great for someone who wants to taste the Mac while keeping their Wintel shit, excuse me, peripherals on their desk at the same time, or for my mother, etc., to surf with.

[JohnR]

Just out of curiosity, what is it that would you use the extra power of a full-featured desktop for? Other than driving a huge monitor.

[Bemopti123]

John, what is the set up that you paid $1800 for and that is surpassed by the Mini?  I would like to compare it to my set up to see whether in reality the Mini is THAT powerful.

Agreed, the only reason one might feel the MINI is underpowered is to drive large screen, one might ask why someone who spends around $600 on the 512 DDR MINI might connect it to a large flat panel, but then you see the prices of these units droping from the sky....this year this trend will accelerate, so you might find someone buying the MINI and attempting to connected to their new TV, through a DVI connection...Why should moneyed people with a higher end computer just have all the fun?

[PhilNYC]

Just out of curiosity, what is it that would you use the extra power of a full-featured desktop for? Other than driving a huge monitor.

Gaming, of course!

[Levi]

Internet Browsing

You have a good point.   Some users are just power users.  

1) It is also best practice to use "full-featured desktops" if you use memory and processor intensive applications such as games, A/V authoring, database, animation and some programming apps etc...  Lots of I/O and number crunching there.  

2) "Full-featured desktops" also allows you future expansion.  There are plenty of space for additional HDDs, Cards slots (depends on systemboard) etc.


Levi

Just out of curiosity, what is it that would you use the extra power of a full-featured desktop for? Other than driving a huge monitor.

[Jay S]

Good question.  The Mini isn't meant to be an all-conquering computer at a bargain price so its best to keep what it can do in the right context.  The real question is: can it do enough to satisfy the average home user?  I think the answer is probably yes.

[John Ashman]

>so I don't see how the Mini is so intensely "limited". The argument made in the thread, which you don't address, is that the Mini comes with insufficient or barely acceptable RAM, a really slow hard drive, no Airport and limited expandability relative to desktops. Your dealer must fix these Jobs-typical limitations, bringing the price into ranges of better Apple machines, like the new iMacs.
.

Okay, so buy the $1500-$2000 G5.  Of course it's not as powerful or expandable as a desktop, but the target audience doesn't need it to be.  A fully loaded one with wireless keyboard, mouse, internet, extra memory, DVD-R, etc is $975 which is still about $800 less than a comparably equipped G5.  And I'm not sure where you get that the harddrive is "really slow", but so what?  I've never noticed the difference in my life between a 7200 and a 5400.  So if it's the latter, that should be perfectly fine for the intended audience.  Most people don't need more than 256MB of RAM, but go ahead and spend the $75 and be safe.  

I have an 867 G4 tower and the Mini runs circles around it.  And it certainly is making my stepson happy, he had my old 400 G4 which he not so affectionately referred to as "the carcass".  I've never really used all the expandability of my G4s and wish that the Mac Mini existed long ago.  

My only beef with the Mini is that I'd like to see a digital audio out (done with airport express) and some extra USB connectors.  But it won't matter.  I'll be buying the whole wireless package on mine, freeing up those USBs and I already have the aiport express so it will be the perfect A/V machine hooked up to my upcoming HDTV.  

I mean, really, you can't look at a VW Golf and then complain that it simply isn't as good as an Audi S4.  Of course not.  The question is whether it gets the job done and for most people it certainly does.

[suits_me]

A G5 for $1500 isn't the only other alternative, now is it? That information has also already been covered in this thread - other options have been mentioned.

256 is only barely adequate for OS X. [I'm editing here: It's not enough.] And upping that is not $75. Did you just make that figure up? The Mini needs dealer installation. Some dealers might let you come in with third party and just charge the install.... This has been gone over.

And if you need to ask what a reasonably fast hard drive is needed for...well, good luck selling your hi-tech NHT stuff. (We are talking about 4500rpm 2.5 laptop drives, here.) This is not a complicated equation. By the time you soup up the Mini, you no longer have such a good value proposition, even ignoring expandability differences.

The above was pretty clear from the thread even to those who don't read tidbits religiously.

> The 1 GB memory upgrade was originally a fairly ridiculous $475
  when name-brand 1 GB cards of the same type can be found in the
  mid-$200s. The price now is $325, which is low enough that it's
  more reasonable to have an Apple-certified technician perform
  the installation - especially when you consider that Apple will
  warranty that RAM and replace it if you have problems. (Self-
  installed RAM is your own problem, a problem that bit me with
  my PowerBook G4 and Panther.)

>  The wireless combination of Bluetooth and AirPort Extreme is now
  $100 instead of $130 when installed together. Upgrading the hard
  drive to 80 GB now costs $50 instead of $90. (MacNN also noted
  that the add-on SuperDrive speed jumped from 4x at the time of the
  announcement to 8x. However, according to MacCentral, Apple said
  that the speed change was a typographical error and changed the
  specification back to 4x speed - the drive _reads_ at 8x, but
  writes at 4x.)

> This [recent price reductions]
  dramatically drops the cost of a "high-end" Mac mini in the
  BTO variety. Take a 1.42 GHz processor, an 80 GB hard drive, a
  SuperDrive, Bluetooth, AirPort Extreme, a USB keyboard and mouse
  (the price of which dropped last week), and a full gig of memory,
  and you're no longer paying over $1,400, but $1,180 instead .

[Brad]

I saw the mini today at the Apple store as I was dropping off my iBook G3 for the dreaded logic board replacement (at the ripe old age of 2.5 yrs)  At least it's covered by Apple even out of warranty.  I'm already missing OSX.

The mini is pretty slick.  After doing some reading, I'd be comfortable swapping out the RAM myself.  

Couldn't take my eyes off the 23" and 30" widescreen LCD's at the store though.   Good thing I've already blown my disposable income for the year  

[John Ashman]

"A G5 for $1500 isn't the only other alternative, now is it?

Nope, but a G5 or iMac that meets or beats the Mac Mini at $975 would cost $1800 and even an eMac would cost $1300

"256 is only barely adequate for OS X. [I'm editing here: It's not enough.] And upping that is not $75.  Did you just make that figure up?"

Make it up?!?  It's on the Apple website - Going to 512K is $75.  And that's reasonable.  Not great, but reasonable. And anyone who needs 1GB of memory shouldn't buy a Mac Mini regardless.  That's a power user.

"And if you need to ask what a reasonably fast hard drive is needed for...well, good luck selling your hi-tech NHT stuff. (We are talking about 4500rpm 2.5 laptop drives, here.)"

Big deal.  That's plenty fast for most folks.  Again, who needs a hyperfast drive for a budget computer?!?  If you need a 7200rpm drive, spend twice as much and get one!  And, I have no problem selling my hi-tech NHT stuff.  I have 52 sets on order.  Want one?  

The point is, the Mac Mini is a tough little computer that will still dust most anything at most any price from 2 years ago.  The fact that it seems crippled to you is only because G5 Macs are so incredibly powerful.  But that doesn't mean the mini isn't powerful enough.  I'd gladly replace my G4 with it.  Besides, you could buy a G5 today and by your criteria, you'd call it crippled in two years.

[Jay S]

Its quite simple: power users should stay away from the Mini.  

But, I told my mom about the Mini for $499 and she got very interested.  Too bad I bought her a laptop x'mas '04 that is still going strong.  80% of her computer time is on home email and web surfing.  The remaining 20% is light Word and Powerpoint.  Power user?  I think not.  Someone with moderate needs who is sick of worrying about viruses and spyware and the hassles of syncing up her Palmpilot and digital camera with the computer?  Definitely.

[SET Man]

Easy there Ashman. The mini is not ment to be a replacement for all upper tier Apple machine. Mini do have more limitation than other more expensice Mac.. and that's inculding my 1 year old 1Ghz PowerBook

Sure is only $499 but factor in the keyboard, mouse and monitor you are looking at around $100 to $200 at least. For casual user mini or eMac would be just fine But for power user like me with ram memory hog like PhotoShop you will need a better machine with expanability like iMac, G4 tower, G5 or powerbook like mine   Of cause I like the new mini but is just not for me.


Oh!  there is one thing that my PowerBook could beat the hell of the new mini.... portability of which I paid lots of $ money for.

Buddy:thumb:

[Bemopti123]

Ashman, I think that the memory issue going from 256 to 512mb will cost $150 at least.  I was in the apple store and I was told by the staff that it was to cost $75, but then, they backtracked and said that due to the single slot design for the mem, that you will need to unplug 256 mb and plug in the 512 mb on the single slot, making the 256 mb rather useless.  Can I be wrong here.  Mini does have limitations, but I guess that the is the nature of anything that is entry level.  

I am directing a student of mine, who I tutor to go the Mac way.  She loved the simplicity and the design of the operating system, no downloading language packs of any sort to enter in Korean.  The OS system is very well design and intuitive instead of the pathetic Windows and all its components.  


The laptops seems to be more attractive, but boy are they costly....but as you well put it Setman, you pay a premium for transportability and functionality.