[mresseguie]

Warning! This is a teaser post. It will be followed <eventually> by other posts. A couple of the posts will be teasers similar to today's; other posts will have hints at what I'm planning.

Don't hold your breath waiting for the next teaser or hint, it could be a loooong wait until I'm ready.

[mresseguie]

I guess everyone is holding their breath. Okay, here's what's been rolling round my head for a couple years:

A few years ago, I saw a pair of Alta Lelantos. I really like how they look. [I long ago forgot if they sound good, but their shape is what stuck in my mind.] http://alta-audio.com/collection/lelantos/

Then, in 2014, I found these speakers: http://www.bambergaudio.com/products/series5/5tmw.php  and fell in love with their design. I've never heard them though.

Notice the similarity in shapes? Something about the truncated "A" shapes satisfies a need in me.

The speakers that are taking shape will use these CSS LD25X tweeters. I have been thinking of using 5" to 6.5" midrange drivers (I may use 7" midwoofers instead of the midrange drivers) and 9.5" or 10" woofers, . This would be a passive design. The cabinets, hopefully, will be a truncated "A" shape - perhaps 24" high with the tweeters at 20" or 21" high. They'll be stand-mounted placed on either side of my TV.

I'll soon learn how practical an idea this is, and how much it might cost. I hope this will be a flat pack that I can assemble.

Okay, go back to holding your breaths.

 

[JohnR]

That would be a tricky build - are you getting someone to do it for you? Who is designing the crossover?

[uncola]

the shape reminds me of the Selah Ottavo a little.  A flat pack for the enclosure would definitely make it an easier build.  What made you pick the CSS tweeter out of all tweeters?  I'm not too familiar with that company.  Lately I've been curious about the transducer labs ceramic tweeters.. because I've heard so much about the Marten Coltrane speaker and it's accuton ceramic tweeters from a friend.. makes me curious to hear a ceramic tweeter myself

[JLM]

Would prefer the Vandersteen Treo CT:  very well known designer who can be found here at AC; phase aligned; all 1st order crossovers; use of transmission line design; carbon fiber tweeter; and cooler truncated pyramid shape than any of the above.  As expected they have a very coherent sound.

Have heard Bamberg 3-ways, not particularly impressed.

Have visited CSS owner's home.  Pre-cut cabinets are killer, sound so-so. 

As always trust your ears.  Hard to do when DIYing or shopping on-line. 

[Letitroll98]

I like the idea of the truncated pyramid, perhaps not enough internal volume for a 10" woofer at 24" high?  I think the original idea of the smaller midrange driver would integrate with most tweeters a little more effectively.  Of course there are work arounds for all of that and if you're trying to meet some unusual design goal.

[Big Red Machine]

Sounds like a fun project. Hope it goes well for you!!!

[Peter J]

I'm drawn to that pyramidal shape too, Michael. If you haven't seen them you might like the look of Gershman Acoustics Avant Garde, although the latest grill is kinda ugly and their website is lame.

[rollo]

  Looks like a fun but tough project. So many speakers so little time.

charles

[mresseguie]

That would be a tricky build - are you getting someone to do it for you? Who is designing the crossover?

Given my low level of speaker design knowledge, I would not dare try to tackle this alone. I've approached Kerry Armes of CSS-Audio for the crossover.

the shape reminds me of the Selah Ottavo a little.  A flat pack for the enclosure would definitely make it an easier build.  What made you pick the CSS tweeter out of all tweeters?  I'm not too familiar with that company.  Lately I've been curious about the transducer labs ceramic tweeters.. because I've heard so much about the Marten Coltrane speaker and it's accuton ceramic tweeters from a friend.. makes me curious to hear a ceramic tweeter myself

No knocks against Rick, but I don't care for the look of the Ottavos. Yeah, I know. It's a truncated "A", but it's too tall and missile-like(?) for my esthetic desire. My choice for the tweeters was more of a chance opportunity than a narrowing down of choices. By this I mean there were four or five tweeters that I had been looking at - and the CSS teeters were one of the more remote possibilities because they hadn't yet been released - when one day I discovered the first 50(?) were selling at a pre-order discount. I made an immediate decision to buy a pair. My initial idea was to have a pair of two-way monitors made that use the same midwoofer as my Adelphos - the 6" Satori driver, but that morphed as other events occurred.

I like the idea of the truncated pyramid, perhaps not enough internal volume for a 10" woofer at 24" high?  I think the original idea of the smaller midrange driver would integrate with most tweeters a little more effectively.  Of course there are work arounds for all of that and if you're trying to meet some unusual design goal.

I suspect you're correct about a dedicated midrange's being easier to integrate. I'm considering using the LDW7 drivers because an AC member offered them to me a couple days ago. My using them or dedicated midrange drivers is still in the research stage. Our TV stand is this massive (though acoustically creaky) cabinet that is 21" deep, which allows these speakers to be deeper than your average cabinets. Think of Von Schweikert VR-5 speakers.

Would prefer the Vandersteen Treo CT:  very well known designer who can be found here at AC; phase aligned; all 1st order crossovers; use of transmission line design; carbon fiber tweeter; and cooler truncated pyramid shape than any of the above.  As expected they have a very coherent sound.

Have heard Bamberg 3-ways, not particularly impressed.

Have visited CSS owner's home.  Pre-cut cabinets are killer, sound so-so. 

As always trust your ears.  Hard to do when DIYing or shopping on-line. 

Vandies might be just a wee bit more expensive than my buying a flat pack kit, no? I'm deliberately trying to save $$$$ by going the kit route. I also lack the tools and skills to cut/route my own cabinets. My point about the Bamberg speakers was their shape. Their sound is irrelevant, no? My goal is to have speakers that will provide lower frequencies than my two-ways and sound good. I'm not trying to replace my Daedalus Apollos, which are in another room.

I could save myself a lot of time and trouble simply by buying SVS towers and subwoofers, but I don't want to do this.

I'm drawn to that pyramidal shape too, Michael. If you haven't seen them you might like the look of Gershman Acoustics Avant Garde, although the latest grill is kinda ugly and their website is lame.

Thanks, Peter. I hadn't known about them.

BTW, you and Mlundy were tops on my list of cabinet makers to approach about cutting cabinets. I love the work you do.

[mresseguie]

I still don't know the exact dimensions of the proposed speakers, but I've made a rough guess of approximately 13"W (at the base) x 16"D (or 18", or 20") x 24"H. a lot of guesswork and assumptions went into those dimensions. I'll cut a cardboard "A" to see if I even like how it looks. If I don't like it, I go back to the drawing board.

Okay, I just looked at my TV and the space to either side, and wondered if the inside edges of the speakers cabinets ought to be vertical and the outside edges slanted? [Wasn't there a pair of AR speakers that had that shape?] Such a shape would allow for greater internal volume than a truncated pyramid, no?

Gadzooks, designing speakers is frustrating! 

Two more points:

1.) I plan to use Baltic Birch for my cabinets, but HDF or other material for the front baffles so as to avoid having to paint or veneer the cabinets. This looks appealing for the front baffles: https://www.hardwood-lumber.com/african-mahogany-wide-plank-butcher-block-countertop/ I got the idea of using BB cabinets and HDF from the Troelsgravensen website.

2.) If I don't like your suggestion, or I seem to disagree, don't misunderstand and get defensive. I appreciate each and every comment and suggestion. It's just that some ideas don't jive with my fantasy for these speakers.

[uncola]

a truncated A bookshelf I know of is the goldenear aon.  A couple of interesting midranges that I like because they aren't the more common cone type are this dome midrange https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-2-midrange/morel-em1308-elite-2-dome-midrange/
and this planar midrange  https://www.parts-express.com/bohlender-graebener-neo8s-planar-transducer--264-7521
there's a satori carbon fiber cone midrange coming out called the textreme.. but might be a while before it comes out

[JLM]

Years ago I had the pleasure of hearing I. M. Fried Model C speakers (2-way, soft dome tweeter, 6" poly woofer, in a transmission line cabinet that was roughly 14" tall truncated pyramid.  Fantastic sound, superior imaging, deeper bass than you'd imagine.  In the 80's they were $5000 from the factory or $500 for the kits but the cabinet as you might guess were fiendishly hard to build.  Kinda rare bird, doubt you could find them in good shape today that anyone would want to sell. 

[opnly bafld]

JBL 250Ti

[hibuckhobby]

Have heard Bamberg 3-ways, not particularly impressed.

As always trust your ears.  Hard to do when DIYing or shopping on-line.

Interesting.  I heard the Bamberg 5's at an audio show and came away thinking they sounded great!

YMMV,

Hibuck...

[mresseguie]

JBL 250Ti

Thanks, OB!

[mresseguie]

A wrinkle in my thinking has formed. Two (or was it three?) nights ago, my wife asked me if the subwoofer (Rythmik F12G) should be brought down from my home office to the TV room. I can't find a smiley to adequately demonstrate the shock and disbelief on my face when I heard her say this. The Rythmik is a really great subwoofer, but it is (in my wife's view) an ugly black box that absolutely does not fit in with the decor. I can only guess that our son said something to her.

It was because I had given up all hope of ever getting my wife to accept the 'ugly black box' that I began scheming to get a big woofer inside a pair of <somewhat> compact TV speakers.

With my wife's help, I brought the F12G downstairs (it's kinda heavy) and hooked it up to my IDA-8. Then, I fiddled with the controls to give the impression that I knew what I was doing.  Wow! Low end frequencies are once again alive and present. It's much better than it was without. I stuffed a sock in each Adelphos speaker's port.

I asked my wife three times if she noticed a difference, but each time she said, "No."  I have no explanation to offer.

So....this changes things. With a subwoofer in the mix (or dual subs), I no longer need the sort of speaker that I have been imagining. I'm going to look into getting either a larger sub (15"); a dual sub with a walnut-like veneer that will better fit Melody's esthetic tastes, or two 12" or 13" subs that will fit inside the tv cabinet. [There is a double-door space on the left and right sides directly below the Adelphos speakers which are 20"W x 17"H X 19"D.] The TV room's volume is huge because it's got a cathedral ceiling and it's open to the kitchen/breakfast nook area. I figure a 15" or a dual 12" with a non-black grill cloth might pass muster.

Pics of TV room:

[JackD]

Michael

If you want to stay with Rythmik based subs, which would, that would involve having the cabinets built by Jim Salk for a price above what Brian charges but in your situation probably worth it.  Though my Family Room might not have the absolute volume as yours though close the pair of  F12G's and Carrera Be's are filling the space easily albeit with more power available than with the IDA-8. 

[JohnR]

The two cabinets at either end look about the right size to hold a subwoofer driver...

[JLM]

The two cabinets at either end look about the right size to hold a subwoofer driver...

Yep, bottom firing sealed design.  Salk could repurpose the cabinets.