[goodguys]

Hi And thanks for reading this thread.

I have been using a dune smart D1 streamer for a few years.
I use the hdmi out connected to a screen for the picture, and i use the stereo analogue outs for the audio.
Surprisingly the audio quality is very good.
I have a htpc with an asus stx II soundcard and the dune's analogue outs are not far behind in sound quality, especially considering the stxII is a top end card.
For the audio the dune ases an AKM4429et dac, i can see a ax117 ldo regulator near it and also a few other ics that i can't identify rt19018a, el-eb 62p, jz9 83-13.

If i wanted to upgrade the audio to surround sound and keep the good video quality, with the same arrangement ( hdmi for picture and analogue outs for audio ) which streamer would you recommend.
The zidoo x20 pro at £600 seems good but only has stereo analogues.
Is there anything you have used or heard anything about.

Thanks!

[witchdoctor]

That's an interesting question. I was in a similar situation a few years ago and read a post from someone who ditched the PC approach and got a Sony Universal player. It was $300 so I tried it and have never looked back. It has two HDMI outs and you can run audio out from one and video out from the other (improves quality) or jus configure them as standard HDMI ports. It has both coax and optical spdif as well as RCA. It plays every disc under the sun and has a lot of streaming apps.

The latest version would be the Sony 1100ES universal player.

If you stick with the PC you might want to try feeding the HDMI to a surround receiver.

What is your speaker arrangement?

[WGH]

If i wanted to upgrade the audio to surround sound and keep the good video quality, with the same arrangement ( hdmi for picture and analogue outs for audio ) which streamer would you recommend.

What is your long term goal?
Do you have the all the other stuff needed for surround sound?
Are you thinking of picking up another stereo amp along with 2 speakers and do 4 channels with a phantom center channel?
Or get a sub and a center channel for a 5.1 system?
And most important, what is your budget?

Since you have and like your Dune Smart D1 you could plug the HDMI into a processor or receiver (which would have the amps included, just add speakers). Prices are real cheap.

If you want to upgrade the video to blu-ray then the discontinued Oppo Blu-ray players have excellent analog processors for 7.1 audio output. I have an Oppo BDP-103 and the picture quality is excellent but have always used the Oppo's HDMI output to a processor. When my surround processor died a month ago I tried using the Oppo as a streamer from the computer, it worked but was slow and didn't have the processing power to handle high bitrate 5.1 sound and video from the computer, it should have worked but didn't.

As much as you want to keep it simple with a one box solution I have a feeling you will need two boxes, a streamer and a surround processor of some type.
Look on eBay for great deals, Outlaw Audio has guaranteed great sound and their processors like the Model 975 have analog audio outputs.
The Music Room has tested equipment, the packing and shipping is the best I have ever seen, check them out too:
https://tmraudio.com/

[Freo-1]

That's an interesting question. I was in a similar situation a few years ago and read a post from someone who ditched the PC approach and got a Sony Universal player. It was $300 so I tried it and have never looked back. It has two HDMI outs and you can run audio out from one and video out from the other (improves quality) or jus configure them as standard HDMI ports. It has both coax and optical spdif as well as RCA. It plays every disc under the sun and has a lot of streaming apps.

The latest version would be the Sony 1100ES universal player.

If you stick with the PC you might want to try feeding the HDMI to a surround receiver.

What is your speaker arrangement?

I agree with this.  I have the Sony X1000ES and the X1100ES.  I actually find them to sound and function better than the Oppo 105.  The Sony also supports streaming, and does a good job of it.  The doubling of sampling frequency for 44 and 48 KHz works very well, much better than past attempts at this.

[WGH]

  Am I missing something? You guys recommend the Sony ES-UBP X1100ES but from the photos it only has stereo outputs and the OP is looking for analog surround sound. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong model number.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_158X1100ES/Sony-ES-UBP-X1100ES.html?tp=171




The Panasonic DP-UB820 has 7.1 analog outs but no streaming, I guess you could plug in the HDMI from the dune smart D1 streamer but that is still a 2 box solution.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_133UB820K/Panasonic-DP-UB820.html?tp=171




The Panasonic DP-UB9000 has it all - streaming plus 7.1 analog outputs if the OP wants to spend $1000
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_133UB9000/Panasonic-DP-UB9000.html?tp=171

[Doublej]

You want this one, cheaper too, $299 list.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/blu-ray-disc-players/ubp-x800m2#product_details_default


Separate video and audio HDMI outputs
Send 4K HDR video and audio to your projector and AV amplifier separately, to ensure optimal sound quality.

[goodguys]

Thanks for the replies.

The suggestion of external reciever is very good, unfortunatly i don't like external receivers.
After hearing quite a few i much prefer seperates, they sound so much better than an all in one integrated receiver.
There is also a general consensus on the net that seperates do outperform integrated.

My goal is to find a quality streamer with 5.1 analogues outs, there used to be a few from dune but can't find any recent ones.
Then I want to run the analogue outs straight  into 3 stereo power amps to give 6 channels of amplification and 5.1 sound.
If the streamer can do the analogue conversion well, then it saves me having to buy dacs or pre-amps, makes it all simpler and better.

What do you guys think, is this possible.
After having listened to the dune smart D1 running strauight out into a power amp, it has low performance components as stated, but does sound very good.
I am thinking if buying a " higher quality " streamer would give higher quality audio.
It looks like from your replies that 5.1 streamers do not exist, that it is only possible from bluray players.
I a leaning more towards a streamer as with a bluray player i will be paying a lot of money for the bluray drive which i will never use.
Any more suggestions please - Thanks!
Thanks!

[witchdoctor]

I know Essence makes a a multi channel dac but IDK of any multi channel streamers.

[goodguys]

Witchdoctor said it earlier and it has got me thinking as well, is htpc the wrong way to go for a/v quality.
Is there something fundamentally wrong using a pc for a/v, some talk about emi radiation, interference.
I can quite often hear all kinds of clicks and hisses when using the pc as a source.
Find it interesting and it surprises me that after spending so much money building a high end pc with an asus stxII soundcard, still the dune d1 streamer is not far behind, also it is only 20% of the price and full of cheap parts.
Is there something about bluray players and streamers that may make them superior, perhaps simpler layout, or lower levels of emi radiation, perhaps being designed specifically for a/v and windows 10 is not. Windows might be a jack-of-all-trades but is it specifically designed for a/v, is there a fundamental advantage in the design that may make bluray players and streamers advantageous.

[witchdoctor]

Sony has a lot of info on their website of how they built their universal players in the ES line from the ground up with SQ in mind. It is purpose built for SQ:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/blu-ray-disc-players/ubp-x1000es

[WGH]

I use computers for all my streaming both audio and video with excellent results. Netflix movies streamed from the computer are excellent, Tidal and JRiver hi-res is flawless. A 20 GB ripped blu-ray movie in 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos plays with no problem at all. The video computer has an Intel i7 processor, Asus motherboard with an older Sapphire Radeon HD6770 Vapor-X graphics card and Windows 10. If you are getting clicks and hisses then something (everything) is out of wack. Probably the soundcard and drivers letting you know you are using them all wrong.

If you want high quality video and sound ditch the asus stxII, sorry dude, wrong tool. The soundcard needs to have an HDMI output. HDMI then goes into a processor for 24/96 DTS-HD Master Audio sound quality. A good gaming sound card has more processing power for better video too. I use the dual screen function so I can still use the computer while a movie is playing on the 60" plasma, no glitches either. Definitely your clicks and hisses will disappear.

The Outlaw 975 with a computer will get you where you want to go, I use an Anthem AVM 60 which takes everything to the next level. The 4 amps and powered sub have a combined output of 1740 watts, I had a get together last Saturday and everyone agreed it wasn't too much power.

[Doublej]

An Outlaw 975 is limited to 1080p. The Outlaw 976 does 4K and HDR. It's a pre-processor so you would feed analog out into your amps via rca cables. You could feed the HDMI out from the Dune D1 (only 1080p though?) to the Outlaw or use a PC to feed the Outlaw.

Or you could build a HTPC with separate audio and video output cards to drive your monitor and amplifiers. Then you would have a single box, albeit a big box, solution.

[WGH]

HDMI is required for hi-res sound, it's a handshake thing with the processor otherwise sound output is limited to 16 bit/44.1 stereo (?) (with clicks and hiss)
A HTPC could probably be built to decode and output 7.2.4 audio and video but that is too deep for me when a used 7.1 processor can be bought for as little as $250.

The OP would need a 20 Mbps connection to stream 4K and HDR since he doesn't use or have a blu-ray player.

A 4K 2160 HDR movie on a disk is about 100 Gb, .mkv downloads are between 32 GB to 60 GB
Netflix uses the following amount of data when playing 4K content:
    114MB – Per minute
    6.8GB – Per hour

This means that a standard 1-hour-30-minute movie will use over 10GB of data. What that means to me is no matter what Netflix says you are not watching true 4K HDR but some sort of compressed mpg format that throws away 75% of the data. My brother has a 65" 4K TV and says he can't see the difference between 1080p and 4K when streaming.

[Doublej]

nt

[srb]

nm

[goodguys]

An Outlaw 975 is limited to 1080p. The Outlaw 976 does 4K and HDR. It's a pre-processor so you would feed analog out into your amps via rca cables. You could feed the HDMI out from the Dune D1 (only 1080p though?) to the Outlaw or use a PC to feed the Outlaw.

Or you could build a HTPC with separate audio and video output cards to drive your monitor and amplifiers. Then you would have a single box, albeit a big box, solution.

I have a H170I-PRO motherboard with asus stxII sound card and am using the hdmi out on the motherboard for the video. The processor i have is i5, not sure which one i will get the details and put them up. Ram is 16 gb of generic.
You were saying that i am doing something wrong, that is the reason for the hiss, clicks and low performance. What do you think that something wrong may be.

Just i've spent so much  money on the pc i'm hoping there may be some way to salvage something out of it.
 Don't have the money to buy new equipment at the moment. Hopefully i can patch something together for a few months until funds become available because the equipment you and others have stated is going to cost a lot.

Also what do you mean by "build a home pc with seperate cards" Isn't that what i am already doing with the asus stxII.

Also, i use cyberlink powerdvd as the media player which converts the dts-hd-ma  and dolbyhd into pcm signals, then feeds them to the soundcard. Is this the correct way of doing it, or is there something fundamentally wrong with this, is hdmi to external processor better

Many thanks!

[Doublej]

You are doing what I was thinking but I think your Asus sound card has only stereo out. Is there a 5.1 analog out daughterboard that you can procure for it?

Is this the card? https://www.asus.com/us/Sound-Cards/Essence_STX_II/

You might need to buy a replace your sound card with something like this which has five or more output channels.

https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Audigy-Performance-Headphone/dp/B00EO6X4XG

[WGH]

Also, i use cyberlink powerdvd as the media player which converts the dts-hd-ma  and dolbyhd into pcm signals, then feeds them to the soundcard. Is this the correct way of doing it, or is there something fundamentally wrong with this, is hdmi to external processor better

The tics and hiss speaks for itself, computer are very electrically noisy inside. Moving the delicate sound processing via HDMI to a dedicated processor is always better. I have three linear (non-switching) power supplies on my music server to remove most of the noise.

A HTPC is basically a storage and streaming device, it is not an amp, a pre-amp, or 5.1, 7.1, 7.2.4 Atmos surround sound decoder.
I use the free VLC Media Player, it can play everything. Enable HDMI/SPDIF Audio Pass Through and use a HDMI cable to the surround decoder

The surround sound decoder is a dedicated unit that does a lot more than any computer is capable of, it is not only a video and 5 channel sound output box. A surround sound decoder takes the complex HDMI signal an separates the audio and video streams. Video is passed through, audio is separated into 11 discrete channels up to 24bit/192kHz resolution, unused channels are combined and mixed into the available channels. All dialog is directed to the center speaker although it can come from off screen and from any speaker. The high resolution audio can also be down mixed into 2 channel stereo.

The surround decoder has a built in pink noise test signal and adjustments for:

• Speaker Positioning
• Speaker distance from seat for proper time delay and imaging
• Individual speaker level calibration
• Individual speaker crossovers so smaller speakers can handle Dolby reference levels
• Subwoofer crossover and volume adjustments, movie sound is not mixed the same as music
• Direct bass from small speakers to subwoofer so dynamics are not lost
• Listening modes: Stereo, Dolby D+, Dolby Surround, Cinema, Music, DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS:X, DTS Neural:X 

New surround decoders come with a calibration microphone that will calibrate your room and each speaker for optimal sound, it really makes a big difference, everything just sounds right.
Here are a couple of my calibration results, no HTPC could ever so this:

[goodguys]

HI. Sorry, forgot to mention i do have the daughterboard.

I very much appreciate the advice as to why external processors are better, at the moment i need advice as to how to address all the pops and crackles the soundcard is giving off. It will take a while to save up the money for a good processor, so just need to keep the htpc for a short while longer.

The stxII sounds okay, just kind of like thin and boring. Have fitted two atx power supplies in, so the stx has its own supply, done all the mods on the net but still unimpressive.

What do you think about building  a faraday cage around the power supply, aren't  these atx supplies supposed to emit a lot of emi, or perhaps moving the power supply outside the pc. I have long cables so could place it some distance away.

What do you think, or is there anything else you can think of.

Thanks!

[goodguys]

Another option is to pick up a bluray player, just something to use until i become more solvent.

How do you think they would compare against my htpc. I am thinking of Panasonic DMP-UB900

Thanks!