Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains

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sresener

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Hey everyone I have used a fake ledgestone product to build my wife a fireplace mantle.

This product is very light as it is made out of gypsum and when fully glued it is very solid.

The product is more porous than it looks and does not brighten up a room.

What are you opinions on it working for dispersion on the wall between my mains.


mresseguie

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #1 on: 18 Oct 2019, 06:34 am »
I hope someone offers an answer. I've wondered about similar materials before, but never thought to ask. Good question!

 :popcorn:

JLM

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #2 on: 18 Oct 2019, 11:54 am »
Dispersion (diffusion) is simply based on geometry and non-absorbency of the material to sound.  The principal involves sound waves getting redirected by an uneven surface.  But the key is the relative size of the surface undulations ("pockets") versus the sound waves.  Sound waves travel at 13,200 inches per second in air.  The length of a sound wave is speed divided by frequency.  So the sound wave of a 20,000 Hz signal is 0.66 inches long and a 100 Hz sound wave is 132 inches long.  Hence the material shown would only provide effective diffusion above roughly 7,000 Hz (twice the depth of 1 inch deep "pockets").

The material used is also important, it must be highly reflective (open cell foam or thin/hollow plastic is useless, painted wood is good).  Because of those nasty laws of physics diffusion products are limited to half the length of the sound wave, typically 1,100 Hz or up to 7.5 inches in working depth.  Since sound waves at those frequencies behave like "rays" bouncing around the room (versus bass "waves") it's important that the product is of a design that works at all angles.  So the best designs are smallish blocks (packed tightly together) of randomly varying depths.  The term "quadratic" is often used to describe how the randomness of the varying depths and relative positions of those depths are determined. 

Here is a recipe for a proper DIY diffuser.  It's 8 inches thick with mounting board (and made of wood, however it's heavy.  An 18 inch square weighs 23 pounds, so secure mounting is important.  And again it's only effective down to roughly 1,100 Hz.: 

http://www.pmerecords.com/Diffusor.cfm

sresener

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #3 on: 18 Oct 2019, 02:40 pm »
Thanks for getting back to me, I was originally going to make a large dispersion panel.
So my Idea now is to make one panel (this panel will be very similar to the design you showed) but it will consist of six of them 36 x 54  and have the remaining part of the wall done in ledgestone.

sresener

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #4 on: 18 Oct 2019, 03:22 pm »
This is a basic example of the back wall



The black is my bass traps
The grey would be the ledgestone
and the red would be the dispersion panel

sresener

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #5 on: 21 Oct 2019, 03:07 am »
I hope someone offers an answer. I've wondered about similar materials before, but never thought to ask. Good question!

 :popcorn:

Well I was bored Friday when I got home from work so I built the diffuser Friday night and started the wall this weekend Ill keep you updated.
I threw a absorber in the corner to just show what the bass trap will look like only shorter.




eclein

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #6 on: 21 Oct 2019, 04:02 am »
That’ll look really nice!

Letitroll98

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #7 on: 21 Oct 2019, 11:40 am »
I think it looks great and will do an effective job at dispersion, very nice work.  But you built, stained, and finished a large multiple pieced dispersion panel after work on Friday night?  C'mon man. 😆 

sresener

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #8 on: 21 Oct 2019, 01:32 pm »
I built it Friday after work, (I was working on it till 1am) :) then I had to wait for the construction adhesive to set, I painted it Saturday evening (I used a black primer and a wine coloured paint) , and installed it Sunday evening.

While the glue was drying I did the ledge stone which is glued on also, which was set enough by Sunday evening.

I'm contractor and I have every possible tool you would need to do something like this.

I did have my 6 and 10 year old helping me place the pieces (which saved more time than I thought)


Letitroll98

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #9 on: 21 Oct 2019, 03:07 pm »
You've done a great job, hope you know I was teasing you.  And you're right, placing all those wood blocks is incredibly time consuming.  Good thing you had some child labor to exploit.  (Okay, okay, I'm sorry, just couldn't resist). A very nice installation, you should be proud.   :thumb:

sresener

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #10 on: 21 Oct 2019, 04:21 pm »
I wasn't taking you in a bad way. And to be honest if I didn't have my ocd where I HAVE to get things done I would call bs on me too.

I can say making one large panel consisting of 6 small ones was incredibly heavy, I felt glue plus a metal support was needed at the bottom.

I dollied it to the room and my wife almost pooed her pants helping me lift it on the wall. :)

sresener

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #11 on: 24 Oct 2019, 04:37 pm »
Well I did more work on the front wall, hung my projector screen and fit my home made bass traps in the corners last night. (these have 9 inches of safe n sound)


 

I did a few other things while I had the wall open.
I ran two dedicated 20 amp using 10/2 aluminum armoured power lines. I ground the armour only at the breaker box and recommend this over basic 10/2 as it reduces electromagnetic radiation by 75%.
I changed my speaker cables from basic blue jeans to audio sensibility statement's.
I changed my interconnects from audio quest red river to audio sensibility statement se's xlr's
And obviously I added the huge diffuser.

My excellent soundstage grew a tiny bit more but what changed dramatically was being able to locate instruments and voices within the stage. (if that makes sense)

Now what jumped out at me. With just my mains running (no subwoofers). The first song I listened too was Disturb (sound of silence) I turned it up until the song starts to fatigue or (annoy my ears). Well I was able to take my system to a level where his voice was impacting me considerably more than before, I still liked what I was hearing but I could tell it was louder than I should be listening too. So I turn on my db meter and was shocked it was peaking to 102db before the most I really could ever listen to was 95db peaks. 

I keep my db meter close and I want to keep my hearing so I listen to music at 85 peaking to 90db ish.

This combination of change's was dramatic and I am very happy with the results so far.



timind

Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #12 on: 24 Oct 2019, 07:47 pm »
That looks great. I've thought of building a diffusor like that, but get discouraged by the weight of them.

Can you show a pic of your DIY bass traps?

sresener

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Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #13 on: 26 Oct 2019, 03:27 am »
Its basically make a absorber similar to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWUEXtT2js

I carefully cut safe n sound to fill the void in the corner, I hold it in place with some creative burlap (until the absorber holds it in place)

Then I place the absorber in the corner and fasten it with large screws

timind

Re: Looking for some opinions on using this between my mains
« Reply #14 on: 26 Oct 2019, 11:25 am »
Its basically make a absorber similar to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWUEXtT2js

I carefully cut safe n sound to fill the void in the corner, I hold it in place with some creative burlap (until the absorber holds it in place)

Then I place the absorber in the corner and fasten it with large screws
Thanks