[mashthepedal]

I am wondering if I can ask for some advice about a high def TV.  I am just switching my audio setup to a 5.1 channel system and I was thinking about getting a digital TV.  I now have a 6 year old Toshiba RPCRT and the picture is quite good.  My sources are direct TV with an S-video cable and a Denon 2910 with component cables.  I bought the DVD with high def in mind.  In the meantime I have brought home 2 large screen high def sets and ended up bringing them both back because I didn't think the picture was as good as my Toshiba.  I did not yet have an HD box for my satellite but for now the majority of what I watch is only in analog anyway.  One set was a Toshiba 62 inch RPDLP which I really didn't like.  I had a Toshiba technician come over who basically told me that there was nothing he could do to make it look better including calibration and that I should hang on to my old set.  I then got a 60 inch Hitachi Ultravision which was definitely better but still not great.  I was told that if I got an external scaler and had ISF calibration done it would look right but by then I was looking at about $7500.  I expected that these sets would look much better on all channels, even with a 480i source but it seems that the smart thing to do is to wait for a while until a) more programming is in HD b) the prices of the sets come down and c) the technology gets better.  I also think that I now have a DVD player which is really nice but probably overkill for my current TV though I do have a surround sound system that'll do it justice.  Any thoughts?

[Marbles]

The longer you can wait, the cheaper and better the set will be when you do get it.

[hometheaterdoc]

I am wondering if I can ask for some advice about a high def TV.  I am just switching my audio setup to a 5.1 channel system and I was thinking about getting a digital TV.  I now have a 6 year old Toshiba RPCRT and the picture is quite good.  My sources are direct TV with an S-video cable and a Denon 2910 with component cables.  I bought the DVD with high def in mind.  In the meantime I have brought home 2 large screen high def sets and ended up bringing them both back because I didn't think the picture was ...

If you are attempting to use Direct TV (highly compressed feed) via S-Video into a digital panel television, it will look like crap...  the CRT set will likely look a little better because the signal doesn't have to go through another A/D conversion.  the digital sets don't do well with composite and S video sources mainly because the internal scaler and deinterlacer in most sets is average at best (and downright atroscious in a lot).  The only way you are going to clean up the signal so that it is somewhat watchable on a digital set is with a good external scaler.

CRT has a lot of advantages, chief of which is that it is still cheaper to purchase than the new digital sets.... but CRT sets are going the way of the dinosaur, for better or worse depending on which side of the fence you sit on.  I'm a CRT guy having owned 9 inch gun front projectors in the past.  I now sell digitals because of their conveniences (easier focus, no convergence issues, size, brightness of image).

Unless you intend to watch high def any time soon, just hang onto what you've got....  you're not really going to take advantage of the added benefit of a high def panel set...

having said that....... modifying your Direct TV box for SDI out and modding your DVD player for SDI out, using an inexpensive scaler like the Lumagen with optional dual SDI input card would SERIOUSLY inprove your current picture even if you don't change your current set.  That, combined with a calibration of your current set is about the best you're ever going to make your current setup look.

[rosconey]

prices are starting to drop fast on hd tv's-
kfart had a 30"ws hdtv for 499 last week-granted its not a major brand but its a start -walmart is supposed to be getting some real low cost flat sceens on a month or so and start giving bb and cc a run .

[Jon L]

Yes, one can keep waiting, waiting for lower and lower price.  I used to do this for buying computers.  I finally bought a PC, but I missed out on all the times I could have used it for a lot of things.  

I bought a 60" Sony RPLCD GWIII about 15 months ago.  I could buy the same set now from clearance or B-stock sources for quite a bit of discount.  The replacement model is not really cheaper per se.

In the meanwhile, through free OTA antenna I put up and HD satelite service, I've seen some HD wonders over the past 15 months, including Superbowl (coming up again!), Oscars, Grammy's, CSI, HBO HD, etc, etc.  

In fact, these days, I can't turn on my TV in prime time and easily find standard def programs.  On OTA free broadcasts, all the majors (NBC, ABC, CBS, etc) are broadcasting in HDTV most of the time in prime time.  HD movies on HBO HD, SHO HD look simply amazing.  Just saw the tired old Matrix part I last night on HBO HD, and even though I own several versions of DVD and seen the movie in theater, it still kicked A&* in HD broadcast!

[jpsartre]

Word on the street is that TI will release a new DLP 1080p chip by year's end for consumer product use so I would wait another year for a significant HDTV purchase (i.e. kilobuck PJ etc). That said, if you don't care for latest/greatest, there are some good delas on 720p screens/PJs out there and will be getting even better in a couple of months.

[Carlman]

I see no reason to buy a 16:9 HDTV now or in the next few years.  Nothing is designed for HD nor 16:9 except for about 5 or 6% of the programming and source equipment.  Take it from an HD owner and wait.

I have an HD cable box and HD set.  For the 5-10 channels that broadcast in HD, only a few of them used HD cameras in the first place.  For those few channels, the picture quality is almost as good as a photo on my wall.  It's simply beautiful.  However, I have found that I have a lot of 'parameters' I have to work around to watch TV now.  My DVR only outputs 480i or p... and my set is 720 which causes problems... My set won't do 'wide zoom' on component inputs so I have to use the cable box's setting to change the screen to fit.... I don't want burn-in from watching 90% of the television that's still in 4:3 w/ bars on the sides and I don't like the 'stretch' feature because it's distorted.  

I hate that 90% of the TV's sold today don't work with 90% of the source material or the equipment sold in the same stores.  

To me, watching TV is sort of like turning off my brain.  So now to watch TV I have this new brain-challenging hurdle every time I change the channel.  I watch much less TV now that I have HD.

Best,
Carl

[mcgsxr]

Carlman, that sounds like the best argument I have heard yet for a dedicated projector... since the source material (ie movies) is always up to par, and you would use it only for movies, it would seem a no brainer.

Wonder if my wife would bite off on that...

[fabaudio]

masthepedal
  Early last year decided to go the projector route and I just upgraded to another 16:9 lcd projector. I don't know what you have where you live but I opted for cable which has far more offerings in high def than Direct tv. And it's constantly expanding. If you ever have the chance to see a Hi def image projected on a 7 foot screen you'll get hooked. The image is incredibly sharp. colors are well saturated etc. Believe the WOW factor is very high and you will never turn back!

[Carlman]

I could've had anything I wanted... Plasma, big screen, projector, etc.  However, in the end we went with the best picture quality and what fit best in the room.  

I think the projector route makes the most sense of anything from a practical use standpoint.  I would've bought one but the room is all at a 45* angle so, the TV is in a corner.  There's nowhere to put the projector and they're noisy...... especially in our house which tends to amplify the smallest sounds.  

If you can swing it logistically, I'd recommend a projector all day... and feel free to use anything I say to convince the other half!    

Seriously, your reasoning is very sound.  I really hate today's TV market.... It's getting like the PC market was 10 years ago.

[byteme]

Seriously, your reasoning is very sound. I really hate today's TV market.... It's getting like the PC market was 10 years ago.

Exactly.  Only backwards.  With computers the software drove hardware improvements for bigger, faster, more.  Here, there is, as you stated, not much for software and I'm not convinced that blu-ray vs. other HD DVD formats are going to help anything.  Who is going to want to go out and re-buy their whole DVD library - in two formats?  Anyway, hardware is way outpacing software and TV's are going very much like computers, at least in the digital realm because everything is chip based and the next latest greatest is always going to be around the corner.  I hear people talking about 1080p and really, I find it pretty funny.  There isn't even enough 720p or 1080i programming and people are holding out for 1080p??  I don't care if it does upconvert everything, it's not native and won't look as good as it can.  And how long do you suppose it will be before there is 1080p programming?!?  Ya.  Yawn.

All that said, we recently bought a JVC 61" DILA set and love it.  Picture is beautiful on DVD and HD, and acceptable on SD (feed is Dish).  There is enough programming for me now, the TV is 720p native resolution so will be just fine for when there is a critical mass of programming and software.  Prices on the new digital sets are dropping all the time and it's VERY hard to argue with the picture quality, size, and "I've got it now" factor.  I would for sure do it again - no regrets at all.

Prior to the JVC I had a 50" 4:3 Toshiba CRT based HD ready TV.

[Rob Babcock]

I personally think HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is the key to the ultimate success of HDTV.  All the marketing info I've read indicates that most people who buy an HD set do so to maximize their DVD viewing experience.  I feel a truly Hi Def DVD format will sell millions of HDTV sets & drive up the installed base, and no one will then say "I won't buy an HDTV because there's nothing to watch."  And that will raise the bar on peoples expectations, so they'll demand HD on TV, too.  With millions of sets out there, broadcasters will have sufficient viewers to make it practical.

As for replacing all our DVDs with HD ones...that's a toughie.  I guess chances are I'll be doing that someday.  Or at least a good majority of them.  When CD came out, I vowed I'd only buy new stuff on CD but that I wasn't gonna replace all my LPs and cassettes!  That didn't exactly work out like I'd planned- I eventually got rid of all my old stuff and replaced every damn thing with CD (aside from a couple rarities I can't obtain).

[byteme]

Rob,

My only reservation with what you say is, those dickheads that are fighting between Blu-ray and HDDVD are going to end up in another beta vs. VHS war.  The reason DVD took off like it did, like nothing else in history, is because when they came to market there was a single format and it offered not only superior picture, but superior audio AND ease of use over VHS.  That coupled with the fact that it was a familiar format - the size of a CD instead of a honkin' laser disc, were key.

Most Joe 6 packs don't know and don't want to know about technology.  People like us will care, but its already been proven studios don't do stuff for us, they do it for Joey 6pack.  For the masses.  I'm very afraid that, like SACD and DVD-A (wether you like multi channel or not) people are just going to go - eh, big deal.  Or worse yet shun both formats because they're confused.  In either case there is no way it'll take off like DVD and that's going to slow software which in turn is going to slow hardware and it'll eat itself.

As for the library replacement.  I learned my lesson.  Only a select handful of movies will be purchased on HDDVD, the ones on the heavy playlist.  Especially if they debut at $30+.

[Rob Babcock]

You're right on that count, Byteme.  The only possible way to screw up Hi Def DVD is just precisely what they plan to do- launch competing incompatible formats.

[gonefishin]

(for me)  Regardless what happens with format war, I still think that the price for new HD wide Format large screens is reasonable.  In this day and age...I'll be surprised if we're ever five years from the birth of an existing technology or more than five years from a new technology that we're currently reading about.
   
    But if you wait...you'll be sure to get a better price on a maturing technology.  Weigh that against a short time until a new technology emerges or takes over...but then you'll have to wait for them prices to come down  

    If it's time to buy a new television, then it will be time.  You can always wait for the new (and better) or for the price to come down.  Of course, you can get a lot of enjoyment within that time too.

  I could never understand when I would talk with people who are reluctant to buy a big screen Tv because of the price.  I'd ask them how old their computer was...and most of the time it's three to five years.  The one before that?  about three to five years.  People seem to easily spend money on something they feel is a necessity like a computer...and even buy one every couple of years...just to stay current.  But they won't spend the same money on a Tv as they would on just one computer.  (of course I'm a believer in buying your computer parts from a source like tigerdirect...and only buying items with BIG rebates).

    I know your situation isn't the same as the people above.  But you can just as easily discourage yourself from making the purchase as well.  If your ready buy one.  If not...wait.

   With a dual tuner HD DVR On DEMAND cable box...I wouldn't give up either may Television or my HD.  I just enjoy it too much.  Plus the fact that I can sit in my living room and order a new release video in HD format.  Too cool!  Besides...I've had this television for about four years now.  I'm figuring every twelve years is a good time to "rotate" the televisions in  the house.  So in another eight years I'll replace the living room Tv and move our current one into the bedroom.  So I'll never be too far off from current (usable/affordable) technology.

   Buy now or wait?  Heck, both of them make sense.

    HAve fun!!!!!!

  dan

[mashthepedal]

Thanks all for your opinions, it was looking like this was going to branch off into another debate about HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray.  Does anyone have a sense of how quickly Direct TV will be adding more HD?  Kevin

[gonefishin]

Thanks all for your opinions, it was looking like this was going to branch off into another debate about HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray.  Does anyone have a sense of how quickly Direct TV will be adding more HD?  Kevin

   not sure???


  How many sat boxes do you have in your house?

  For HD satellite, Echostar (Dishnetwork) looks like it may hold some HD promise with the acquisition of VOOM HD sat service.  This may also be good news if your a current  Direct Tv subscriber.  I'd hold off until DishNetwork figures out just what kind of HD deals they would like to offer, then take them up on the HD service with a one to two years service contract for being a new subscriber.

   It may not end up being a bad deal...I'm just hoping that they take full advantage of the VOOM acquisition.  Which I would expect they would.  DishNetwork needs to go HighDef...and Voom needed some serious help.  

   wait a bit and see    
    dan

[rosconey]

i'm glad i didnt just keep waiting-
sports on hd is the best -hbo-hd is very good also,as are the hdnet channels and discoveryhd

[EDS_]

Thanks all for your opinions, it was looking like this was going to branch off into another debate about HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray.  Does anyone have a sense of how quickly Direct TV will be adding more HD?  Kevin

Forgive me for the weak response. One of the video mags wrote Direct TV (maybe it was Dish Network) plans to orbit two new sats. by June 05 and then two more in 07. A five LNB dish will be needed. I'll dig for more info.

[DeanSheen]

Wait.  

Recently I have immersed myself in AVSFORUM after about a 2 year hiatus whre I had spent about a year prior deciding on what tv to purchase.  I ended up with a 36" JVC L'eArt flat tube that does nothing fancy other than use full resolution on 16x9 sources.  It was ISF'd too and it looks pretty darn good.

What I have learned is that 2005 is going to be the year of the TV.  Some random thoughts:  LG, a Korean company is coming into the market hard and helping to drive down prices.  Plasma prices are falling due to it being a mature technology in terms of production and competition from microdislplays.  LCD is working hard to compete with plasmas in terms of picture quality and pricing.  DLP sounds horrible...... 1080p sets will become rather common this year, though there is no source for it, but apparently the upscaling makes microdisplay RPTV's look much better.  & last but not least, the TV of the moment is the 13k 70" LcoS RPTV Sony Qualia.  

Me, I'm wating till August when JVC comes out with their 1080p LCOS sets.  
I'm all about the 61" one.

BYTEME:  Guess your liking that thing ehh?

Best

DS