Qobuz sucks. Unusable.

Mike-48 · « **Reply #20 on:** 5 Jul 2019, 05:47 am »

@RoadTripper:

At my end, running Qobuz:

No dropouts running on a Windows 7 desktop to a USB DAC.
No dropouts running on a Windows 10 laptop to a USB DAC or Bluetooth headphones.
No dropouts running on an LG V20 smartphone to Bluetooth headphones.
No dropouts running in a DLNA system with either the Qobuz "share" function or through a DLNA control point.
No droputs running on a *second* DLNA system (miniDSP SHD), as the previous.

It seems to be an issue specific to your configuration. I don't use Macs, but maybe the Air has some power-saving system that is causing a problem. Or maybe you have a networking problem. It's not the Qobuz service that's the problem.

RoadTripper · « **Reply #21 on:** 5 Jul 2019, 11:38 am »

Dropouts occur but they aren't a prohibiting factor. Most of the time it works fine. The original problem traces back to licensing issues that Qobuz has with certain tracks on certain releases. And it is rare.

The gapless issue is a show stopper for opera. Has anyone found an answer to that?

bacobits1 · « **Reply #22 on:** 5 Jul 2019, 01:47 pm »

Qobuz is really responsive on questions. The have gotten back within 24 hours.
They have representatives also on the "Computer Audiophile" now Audiophile Style board answering questions.

AmpDesigner333 · « **Reply #23 on:** 5 Jul 2019, 04:20 pm »

Just started using Qobuz....

The discussion about bandwidth started this topic, but eventually led to my post about Qobuz here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=163396.msg1748978#msg1748978

I have a dedicated wi-fi network for audio with a NAS, and I run JRiver and Logitech Media Server on a local PC. iPeng is on my phone as remote control. For internet access, I use a power-line based connection to my main router. All inexpensive hardware, except for the audio system itself, which is:
SBT > Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS > Cherry MEGA MK2 MONO > Magnepan 1.7i

AmpDesigner333 · « **Reply #24 on:** 5 Jul 2019, 04:25 pm »

Quote from: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Jul 2019, 04:20 pm

Just started using Qobuz....

The discussion about bandwidth started this topic, but eventually led to my post about Qobuz here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=163396.msg1748978#msg1748978

I have a dedicated wi-fi network for audio with a NAS, and I run JRiver and Logitech Media Server on a local PC. iPeng is on my phone as remote control. For internet access, I use a power-line based connection to my main router. All inexpensive hardware, except for the audio system itself, which is:
SBT > Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS > Cherry MEGA MK2 MONO > Magnepan 1.7i

If you're on Facebook and in the US, look up David Solomon, the guy in charge of Qobuz in the US. He is very responsive. Also, try using SpeedTest.net to test your network speed. I'm having no issues with Qobuz, and measured less than 50Mbps.

Mike-48 · « **Reply #25 on:** 5 Jul 2019, 04:43 pm »

Quote from: RoadTripper on 5 Jul 2019, 11:38 am

The gapless issue is a show stopper for opera. Has anyone found an answer to that?

That would be a show-stopper for me, too. If you like, give a release (and track numbers) where it bothers you, and I'll see if I have the same problem here. That at least will narrow it down a little (or not).

yardbird · « **Reply #26 on:** 2 Aug 2019, 11:16 am »

I had lots of dropouts using Chromecast Audio. Unusable. Kept Tidal even though I liked the GUI of Qoboz better.

RoadTripper · « **Reply #27 on:** 2 Aug 2019, 12:55 pm »

The dropout problem was traced to Qobuz offering "teaser" tracks that are designed to only play for 30 seconds before quitting. It merely behaves like a dropout when in fact it is a licensing issue. I guess they are rare.

The opera problem (which is bad if the opera is broken up into separate tracks that arbitrarily break up a "song" in mid-note) seems to not be present in every case. In fact, of late it seems to be rare also.

Tyson · « **Reply #28 on:** 2 Aug 2019, 02:39 pm »

It's been more stable for me lately too.

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #29 on:** 2 Aug 2019, 03:04 pm »

For those of you saying Quoboz sounds better than Tidal, I assume you are referring to 16/44 resolution? If so, you are saying that Quobuz has some sort of mojo to make their stream BETTER than cd quality? In my system, Tidal is indistinguishable from the same music ripped to FLAC on my HD. Maybe I'm missing something.

Shakey

Tyson · « **Reply #30 on:** 2 Aug 2019, 03:12 pm »

Quote from: Shakeydeal on 2 Aug 2019, 03:04 pm

For those of you saying Quoboz sounds better than Tidal, I assume you are referring to 16/44 resolution? If so, you are saying that Quobuz has some sort of mojo to make their stream BETTER than cd quality? In my system, Tidal is indistinguishable from the same music ripped to FLAC on my HD. Maybe I'm missing something.

Shakey

I don't run Qobuz on my downstairs system where I have my music server with all my ripped 16/44 discs (GR Research Super 7 speakers, Dennis Had Inspire monoblocks, iFi Audio iDSD Pro w/external linear power supply), so I can't compare on the 'big system'.

I do run it on my upstairs system which is in the main living area & not a dedicated listening space (Klipsch Forte III speakers, Elekit Japan 300b amp, Chromecast Audio streamer, iFi iOne DAC) w/either my laptop or my phone using Qobuz (or Tidal). And yes, Qobuz just sounds a little more open, a little more detailed than Tidal.

But don't take my word for it, it's easy enough to test out. Just sign up for the free Qobuz trial & try them both. I listen to mainly classical music (some jazz, some pop/rock), and it's pretty easy to hear once you notice it.

Of course, if I listened to mainly rock or pop, I might stick with Tidal since their library is so good. To me, at this level of overall quality (both services are excellent), the contents of the libraries matter more to me than the small difference in sound. Lucky for me, Qobuz is very strong in the classical genre.

wushuliu · « **Reply #31 on:** 2 Aug 2019, 03:52 pm »

Quote from: Shakeydeal on 2 Aug 2019, 03:04 pm

For those of you saying Quoboz sounds better than Tidal, I assume you are referring to 16/44 resolution? If so, you are saying that Quobuz has some sort of mojo to make their stream BETTER than cd quality? In my system, Tidal is indistinguishable from the same music ripped to FLAC on my HD. Maybe I'm missing something.

Shakey

Since there is zero transparency on the part of any of these streaming services we really have no idea of what, if any, processing or conversions occur on their end. All sound a little different. If you've ever used software like Jplay for instance or MQN their developers talk about how even the app is coded can have sonic impacts to varying degrees. I have compared Qobuz, Deezer, and Tidal. They all sound a little different. For me Qobuz was a little too warm or even ever so slightly rolled off at upper frequencies. I can see how it would be preferred to other options, especially if streamed wirelessly. It's a more forgiving presentation (IMO). But I still prefer how Tidal sounds, and their library is just much better, especially for more esoteric genres like Classical Indian music etc., not just rap, pop and rock.

mitch stl · « **Reply #32 on:** 2 Aug 2019, 10:46 pm »

Quote from: wushuliu on 2 Aug 2019, 03:52 pm

Since there is zero transparency on the part of any of these streaming services we really have no idea of what, if any, processing or conversions occur on their end. All sound a little different. If you've ever used software like Jplay for instance or MQN their developers talk about how even the app is coded can have sonic impacts to varying degrees. I have compared Qobuz, Deezer, and Tidal. They all sound a little different. For me Qobuz was a little too warm or even ever so slightly rolled off at upper frequencies. I can see how it would be preferred to other options, especially if streamed wirelessly. It's a more forgiving presentation (IMO). But I still prefer how Tidal sounds, and their library is just much better, especially for more esoteric genres like Classical Indian music etc., not just rap, pop and rock.

I use LMS and a Squeezebox Touch (into a Bel Canto DAC) as my source. During the Qobuz trial period, I set up a number of back-to-back comparisons where I chose a track from my own server and then set up the same song from Qobuz as the next track. It was very easy to go back and forth between the two tracks. I never did spot a difference in sound quality. I've been very pleased with the sound quality from Qobuz. Its a great way to play music. As with anything in audio, YMMV -- you gotta see what works for you.

mresseguie · « **Reply #33 on:** 3 Aug 2019, 06:35 am »

Roadtripper,

Are there any other devices competing for wifi bandwidth in your home while you're streaming opera? Try turning your cell phone or other wifi hungry devices off while you are listening to Qobuz.

Are you using the router/modem supplied by your cable company, or a third party modem for wifi? My Comcast supplied wifi modem sucks (according to people more knowledgeable than me). I would benefit by buying my own modem. It's on my list of things to do.

In any event, in my home in Oregon, I don't have problems with my wifi signal. However, in my home in Taiwan, I'm constantly battling with all the other people in the building, the concrete walls blocking my signal, and who knows what else. For some reason my wife will not allow me to run a line from the modem in my home office into the living room where my audio system is.

Michael

P.S. Nice write up on the SW1X DAC. I'm still stuck on how best to describe my experience.

AmpDesigner333 · « **Reply #34 on:** 8 Aug 2019, 05:06 pm »

Quote from: mitch stl on 2 Aug 2019, 10:46 pm

I use LMS and a Squeezebox Touch (into a Bel Canto DAC) as my source. During the Qobuz trial period, I set up a number of back-to-back comparisons where I chose a track from my own server and then set up the same song from Qobuz as the next track. It was very easy to go back and forth between the two tracks. I never did spot a difference in sound quality. I've been very pleased with the sound quality from Qobuz. Its a great way to play music. As with anything in audio, YMMV -- you gotta see what works for you.

LOVE the SBT! Planning on asking Logitech to bring it back. Check out this thread on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/TRUTHinAudio/permalink/2289795054409434

I use a separate WiFi for my main audio system. I use a TP-Link Powerline Ethernet Adapter to get to the internet from the extra router:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AWRUICG

The system runs Qobuz flawlessly up to 96/24.

The extra router is connected to a PC with LMS running in the background and a NAS (has ripped music) that I hardly use anymore now that I have Qobuz.

A_shah · « **Reply #35 on:** 9 Aug 2019, 01:30 am »

No never had an trouble streaming Tidal or Quboz over wireless or ethernet except I was an early adopter of Quboz so I was streaming via UK and paying through Apple account was costing me $ 35.00 a month only recently switched over to to US based Quboz.
Although had no issues- but in the last couple of days I decided get the Comcast /xfinity XB6 gateway which gives speed upto 1 GB ( no need for 1GB speed but the option is their if I need it ) also changed the outlet switch in the Closet where I have the Smart Box and Modem to Hospital grade Pass & Seymour 8300 , and for the modem a super quite audioquest NRG C7 PC .

The house has both fiber optic plus Cat 6 installed throughout . At the modem & cable point used super quite connectors and have 3 gigabit switches (TP- link & netgear ) The switches( two first floor & one on ground floor ) have CAT 7 & CAT 8 Ampcom s/FTP ethernet high speed patch cords ( from Amazon) end result is according to Meghapath speed test website site: 70 Mbps download speed , 5.76Mbps upload speed the jitter - remains low between 1-4 ms and I am getting constantly lower ping between 16ms to 18 ms.
So what is the end result of all these tweeks ! well I can tell I have a very good HDR 4k stream from Amazon and Netflix , very low noise floor & practically jitter free ( some jitter will always be there ) music streaming

Asghar

RoadTripper · « **Reply #36 on:** 21 Aug 2019, 08:32 pm »

I've stated above that the problem with Qobuz is not internet dropout related. It's with specific tracks that I've tracked down to licensing issues and I believe these are very rare. However, I have also stated that Opera in particular is problematic because recordings somewhat arbitrarily differentiate between tracks that happen to occur in the middle of a "song", resulting in a 2 second breakup in mid-note or mid-phrase.

This opera is an example: R. Strauss - Ariadne auf Naxos (1912 version) Conducted by Kent Nagano on Warner Classics (although it appears on the cover to actually be Virgin Classics).

AmpDesigner333 · « **Reply #37 on:** 23 Aug 2019, 02:33 pm »

Here's some info about Qobuz bandwidth requirements:
https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/info/hi-fi/bancs-d-essai/will-my-internet-bandwidth-be179216

(they recommend 20Mbps or better)

AmpDesigner333 · « **Reply #38 on:** 23 Aug 2019, 02:38 pm »

Quote from: RoadTripper on 21 Aug 2019, 08:32 pm

I've stated above that the problem with Qobuz is not internet dropout related. It's with specific tracks that I've tracked down to licensing issues and I believe these are very rare. However, I have also stated that Opera in particular is problematic because recordings somewhat arbitrarily differentiate between tracks that happen to occur in the middle of a "song", resulting in a 2 second breakup in mid-note or mid-phrase.

This opera is an example: R. Strauss - Ariadne auf Naxos (1912 version) Conducted by Kent Nagano on Warner Classics (although it appears on the cover to actually be Virgin Classics).

Is this the one?

Ugh. Trying to get a better image of this.... Can you provide the album cover?

This one?

RoadTripper · « **Reply #39 on:** 23 Aug 2019, 09:17 pm »

It should be, because it has all the right details. Conductor, artists, orchestra, etc. The label is a puzzler. Virgin Classics, Erato, and Warner Classics are all stated. The cover art is also different.

This might work if you're playing through a browser: https://play.qobuz.com/album/0724354511158

As for posting cover art, I don't know how to do that. I also can't post photos of my own either. They come out bollixed up.