[RonN5]

Read through the various forums and you will see that the Class D debate is alive an well...many supporters and many detractors.  Then notice that most of the magazine reviews over the past couple years are less and less interested with the amplifier class and more interested in the sound and the Class D amplifiers are getting good grades and recommendations.

Here is an interesting thread in Audiogon...what do you think?

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/i-went-from-class-d-to-luxman-a-ab-and-most-of-what-you-think-is-wron

[rollo]

  Well I certainly will agree with 2 to 3 days to sound right after unplugging. I prefer a hybrid class "D" design. Using a tube on the input gave me the tonality and harmonic structure and non mechanical sound I desired.


charles
 

[Tyson]

I've heard a bunch of class D.  I'm mainly a tube guy.  And as a tube guy, the Digital Audio Company (DAC) Cherry/Maraschino are the only ones I'd be willing to own.  Those things are great because (more than any other digital amp I've heard), they get the tone right.  In addition to all the standard class D strengths. 

[rollo]

  Tommy has it going on. Have not heard his latest design. I own Arion HS 500 mono blocks.


charles

[OzarkTom]

I've heard a bunch of class D.  I'm mainly a tube guy.  And as a tube guy, the Digital Audio Company (DAC) Cherry/Maraschino are the only ones I'd be willing to own.  Those things are great because (more than any other digital amp I've heard), they get the tone right.  In addition to all the standard class D strengths.

+1

[AvsFan]

Do you think the 48v, 125 watt per channel version would be enough to power my new Magnepan LRS's in a small room?
I think it would be, of course the 400 watt per channel would be nice but that is way out of my price range. 

[Freo-1]

To me, the Devialet Expert/Expert Pro units are the best sounding solution to audio electronics I've come across.  They  are not a Class D amp per se, but employ a Class D current output with a Class A voltage amp stage.  The fact that the DAC, volume control, phono, USB, wi-fi, are all built in is a significant step forward in audio engineering.  They also employ DSP/SHARC technology.


The white papers explains how it works:


http://www.dynamicaudio.jp/file/110125/201101DevialetWhitePaper.pdf




https://www.klangpunkt.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/devialet_-_white_paper_-_sam__adh_technologies.pdf

[Wind Chaser]

Do you think the 48v, 125 watt per channel version would be enough to power my new Magnepan LRS's in a small room?
I think it would be, of course the 400 watt per channel would be nice but that is way out of my price range.

The 48v should be just fine, keep in mind the LRS is spec’d as a 4 ohm load in which case the amp with the 48 volt power supply will output 200 watts per channel. IMO, it should be a perfect fit. You’re not going to find a better sounding amp for the money. No contest, not even close. And if you ever need more power, you can just upgrade the power supply and you’re good to go. 

[AvsFan]

The 48v should be just fine, keep in mind the LRS is spec’d as a 4 ohm load in which case the amp with the 48 volt power supply will output 200 watts per channel. IMO, it should be a perfect fit. You’re not going to find a better sounding amp for the money. No contest, not even close. And if you ever need more power, you can just upgrade the power supply and you’re good to go. 

Lots of love over here for Class D, in particular the DAC CHERRY AMPS AND MARASCHINO AMPS. I posted about Class D and DAC amps over at Audiokarma and got blasted. Saying that they were over priced and no different than the TPA chip boards they sell for under $100. I am at a real loss as to what to do.

A couple of things. Even at 4ohms, Tommy's website still says 125 watts per channel inot a 4ohm load with the 48v power supply. Which I too thought those numbers should be higher at 4ohms. 2. So you say that I am not going to find a better sounding amp for $1200? That it' snot even close?!?!?! That's A BIG & BOLD statement. What are the sonic advantages of the Stereo Maraschino over something like Frank's amp, the AVA SET120?  https://avahifi.com/collections/power-amplifiers/products/vision-set-120-power-amplifier

I need some convincing. I want to believe that the DAC amps are something VERY special. But now after reading about the pitfalls of Class D over CLass A/B, I am starting to second guess myself.

[renbo]

Try to find an ncore (Hypex class d)based amp to listen to as they are state of the art..Everyone has their own fav, I would audition before deciding, with my decision based on my own ears.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

There are plenty of Class D type amps that sound great and plenty of AB amps that sound mediocre and visa versa.  I think it is splitting hairs.  If an amp can double its power at 4 ohms from 8 ohms, it tells me it at least has a good power supply.

Do the Class D amps that I have heard sound different, sure.  But I liked most of them and would not have  a problem switching to one if I decided to move on from my Pass amp.  I don't think that you can generalize about all Class D type amps.  They do sound different amongst them.

My advice AvsFan would be to buy an amp that is at least 120 wpc at 8 ohms and that doubles at 4 ohms to run with the Maggies.  Otherwise you will be disappointed with the LRS's at louder volumes.  Buy an amp that has a 30 day return policy and trust your ears.

Also, remember that your other electronics will affect the sound of any amp you may buy.

[Freo-1]

There are plenty of Class D type amps that sound great and plenty of AB amps that sound mediocre and visa versa.  I think it is splitting hairs.  If an amp can double its power at 4 ohms from 8 ohms, it tells me it at least has a good power supply.

Do the Class D amps that I have heard sound different, sure.  But I liked most of them and would not have  a problem switching to one if I decided to move on from my Pass amp.  I don't think that you can generalize about all Class D type amps.  They do sound different amongst them.

My advice AvsFan would be to buy an amp that is at least 120 wpc at 8 ohms and that doubles at 4 ohms to run with the Maggies.  Otherwise you will be disappointed with the LRS's at louder volumes.  Buy an amp that has a 30 day return policy and trust your ears.

Also, remember that your other electronics will affect the sound of any amp you may buy.

Sage advice (for SS amps). 


The point about the other electronics are valid as well.  This is why I wound up going with Devialet.   They are unique among all SS products, in that the DAC/volume control is built into the unit, and the DAC output is passively connected directly to the amp.  Devialet also has a unique output setup, and does not have the filtering limitations all other Class D amps have.  They also get the musical tones correct.  Second hand units can be had for 2 to 3 K, and you get everything in one package. 


I think quality amps from AVA, Cherry, Pass, etc. all will sound very good, as long as you get sufficient power as recommended earlier.

[Tyson]

Lots of love over here for Class D, in particular the DAC CHERRY AMPS AND MARASCHINO AMPS. I posted about Class D and DAC amps over at Audiokarma and got blasted. Saying that they were over priced and no different than the TPA chip boards they sell for under $100. I am at a real loss as to what to do.

A couple of things. Even at 4ohms, Tommy's website still says 125 watts per channel inot a 4ohm load with the 48v power supply. Which I too thought those numbers should be higher at 4ohms. 2. So you say that I am not going to find a better sounding amp for $1200? That it' snot even close?!?!?! That's A BIG & BOLD statement. What are the sonic advantages of the Stereo Maraschino over something like Frank's amp, the AVA SET120?  https://avahifi.com/collections/power-amplifiers/products/vision-set-120-power-amplifier

I need some convincing. I want to believe that the DAC amps are something VERY special. But now after reading about the pitfalls of Class D over CLass A/B, I am starting to second guess myself.

Should be more than enough power.  Of course you could order both amps and try them out directly in your system.  Do both companies offer money back guarantees?

[AvsFan]

Should be more than enough power.  Of course you could order both amps and try them out directly in your system.  Do both companies offer money back guarantees?

See my response in the above thread about AVA VS DAC.

But it's done and things have now been set in motion.  I am going both routes.  I ordered the DAC Stereo Maraschino and got a GREAT deal on a demo unit. I guess it was at Axpona or something. Barely used.  I have two systems and am going to buy one of Frank's amps for the other system. Either the SET 120 or 400, depending on what happens with the DAC STM. Obviously if I get the DAC and like it I am keeping it for one of my systems and ordering the AVA for the other one. So to make this simple I plan on owning both amps. Why not. And obviously if one of the amps doesn't move me, I will send it back. 

[Wind Chaser]

Lots of love over here for Class D, in particular the DAC CHERRY AMPS AND MARASCHINO AMPS. I posted about Class D and DAC amps over at Audiokarma and got blasted. Saying that they were over priced and no different than the TPA chip boards they sell for under $100.

I seriously doubt anyone saying such things has heard Tommy’s amps. Prior to the Maraschino’s I owned a few TPA boards but gave them all away. Yes, they sound fantastic and they can be had for next to nothing, but as good and great as they are (especially considering the cost) they are definitely NOT in the same league as the Maraschino’s. If they were, I would have kept the best TPA amp for myself and promptly returned the Maraschino’s back to Tommy.

And FWIW, the person who I gave my best TPA amp to was kind of in the same position as you are in now. Long story short, he found it hard to accept the things I was saying about Class D and the Maraschino’s in particular. So in order to help him understand the legitimacy of what I was saying, at least in part about Class D, I gave him my last TPA amp so he could judge for himself. Shortly thereafter he put his 2A3 SET up for sale, and ordered the Maraschino’s (along with one of Tommy’s DACs). Ask him how the TPA fairs against the Maraschino’s. His name is Bill and his AC moniker is sumoking.

So you say that I am not going to find a better sounding amp for $1200?

Exactly!

Obviously I haven’t heard every $1200 amp out there, but I have heard a number of much more far more costly amplifiers complete with very favourable reviews and endorsements by various industry critics. Even if anyone of those amps could be had for $1200 or less, none of them would serve as an adequate replacement for the Maraschino’s in terms of SQ. However, if I was into audio jewelry, that would be a different matter.

I need some convincing. I want to believe that the DAC amps are something VERY special. But now after reading about the pitfalls of Class D over CLass A/B, I am starting to second guess myself.

I’m not aware of any pitfalls so to speak, but I understand your skepticism. I had read everything I could find as to what other people were saying (especially in relation to the other amps they owned) about these amps before I finally made the decision to move forward. Even then, only after I got to hear them for myself did I understand.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Sage advice (for SS amps). 


The point about the other electronics are valid as well.  This is why I wound up going with Devialet.   They are unique among all SS products, in that the DAC/volume control is built into the unit, and the DAC output is passively connected directly to the amp.  Devialet also has a unique output setup, and does not have the filtering limitations all other Class D amps have.  They also get the musical tones correct.  Second hand units can be had for 2 to 3 K, and you get everything in one package. 


I think quality amps from AVA, Cherry, Pass, etc. all will sound very good, as long as you get sufficient power as recommended earlier.

I have read that Devialet has great sounding amps and they are well regarded.  I have always been curious about them.  Some time in the next year I am going to sell my Pass X250 amp for a used X250.5 or X250.8 but I will give consideration to Devialet among a few other amps like BAT.


AvsFan, congrats on the amp.  I am sure it will sound great, but you will appreciate the extra power and rich textured full midrange of the SET 400 AVA amp.

[Freo-1]

I have read that Devialet has great sounding amps and they are well regarded.  I have always been curious about them.  Some time in the next year I am going to sell my Pass X250 amp for a used X250.5 or X250.8 but I will give consideration to Devialet among a few other amps like BAT.


AvsFan, congrats on the amp.  I am sure it will sound great, but you will appreciate the extra power and rich textured full midrange of the SET 400 AVA amp.

Agree with the SET 400 AVA amp.  Should work well.


I've owned a lot of Nelson Pass gear over the years.  Great gear. 


Having said that, the Devialet gear is just at another level.  They measure outstanding, are very well made, and can be configured to meet individual sources.  I've got a pair of D-Premiers (500 watts @ 6 ohms) driving a pair of T+A Criterion TB160's that sounds truly remarkable.  My other system has D 400's (with speaker active matching) driving a pair of Dynaudio Focus 360's.  The SAM smooths out the Focus speakers, and safely extends the bass response. 


When you consider they can support wi-fi, usb, phono, they are actually pretty reasonably priced.  Highly recommended for audition.   

[sumoking]

And FWIW, the person who I gave my best TPA amp to was kind of in the same position as you are in now. Long story short, he found it hard to accept the things I was saying about Class D and the Maraschino’s in particular. So in order to help him understand the legitimacy of what I was saying, at least in part about Class D, I gave him my last TPA amp so he could judge for himself. Shortly thereafter he put his 2A3 SET up for sale, and ordered the Maraschino’s (along with one of Tommy’s DACs). Ask him how the TPA fairs against the Maraschino’s. His name is Bill and his AC moniker is sumoking.

Exactly!

[/quote]
I am that guy and after some pretty amazing amps in my 40 years in Audio including having been a dealer, I can say I was blown away by the Cherries.  I'd like a little more on the cosmetics side of the equation, but the sound has no peers in anything near this price category.
Cheers,

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Agree with the SET 400 AVA amp.  Should work well.


I've owned a lot of Nelson Pass gear over the years.  Great gear. 


Having said that, the Devialet gear is just at another level.  They measure outstanding, are very well made, and can be configured to meet individual sources.  I've got a pair of D-Premiers (500 watts @ 6 ohms) driving a pair of T+A Criterion TB160's that sounds truly remarkable.  My other system has D 400's (with speaker active matching) driving a pair of Dynaudio Focus 360's.  The SAM smooths out the Focus speakers, and safely extends the bass response. 


When you consider they can support wi-fi, usb, phono, they are actually pretty reasonably priced.  Highly recommended for audition.

I was thinking about a Devialet Expert Pro used.  I see them from time to time.

[Tom Bombadil]

I believe that the best Class D amps have sounded good for several years.  I think there are now something like 5 or 6 of them in the Stereophile Class A recommended list.   They have won many accolades from audio reviewers from all over the world.   I was a skeptic for a while and bought into the common refrain that they have some hashiness and irritation on high frequencies.  Perhaps some do.  I've heard some driving high end speakers which sounded fantastic.