Everyone Hears Differently?

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Photon46

Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #20 on: 16 Jun 2019, 02:47 pm »
3 audiophiles agree on anything?
No.

 :wave: :rotflmao:

PDR

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Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #21 on: 16 Jun 2019, 03:45 pm »
Why is the live sound in a concert hall the standard?

I play many instruments, for the most part I feel the correct
sound from my guitar, or my sax, or my harmonica, or my mandolin, or
almost any instrument is when I play in my treated listening room.

Most halls are bowls, designed to throw the music (sound) away from the
playing area into the seated area....this doesnt sound anything like natural
when your playing or seated next to someone playing. Even when practicing
with a band, orchestra, etc.....the room you practice in isnt a hall.

So why isnt the goal a more intimate interaction?.......I bet the system comparison
would be better suited and more revealing by comparing live and recorded
instruments from in your listening space, rather than a venue.

Photon46

Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #22 on: 16 Jun 2019, 04:16 pm »
Why is the live sound in a concert hall the standard?

So why isnt the goal a more intimate interaction?.......I bet the system comparison
would be better suited and more revealing by comparing live and recorded
instruments from in your listening space, rather than a venue.

Depends on the type of music and number of musicians. Something like an acoustic guitarist and a vocalist would be fine in a small space and small groups are generally recorded in more intimate spaces (unless it's a live recording of a concert.) ECM, Water Lilly Acoustics, and Newvelle Records come to mind as outstanding examples of reference level recordings in smaller spaces. However, even a chamber trio of pianist, cello, and violin are loud and easily overload a small room on loud passages. I think we really need a large space to let an orchestra perform. I'm curious about your statement regarding orchestras not practicing in a hall. All our area university orchestras rehearse in large theater spaces and the professional orchestras I've been familiar with do the same.

You do raise an interesting point about the different perspectives of musicians vs. audience in terms of experiencing music. I've heard more than one professional musician say they have no interest in recordings and audio because their aural perspective as a performer is so different from the audiences (or recording microphones.) 

Saturn94

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Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #23 on: 16 Jun 2019, 06:23 pm »
3 audiophiles agree on anything?
No.

 :thumb:

gbaby

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Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #24 on: 17 Jun 2019, 07:49 pm »
Hey!

   Here's my $0.02USD on this. The answer is no. What you hear at the concert hall with your own ears is not the same as what the mics picked up. Although, the recording technology we have today is pretty amazing. But it can't pick up everything your ears hear at the concert hall, also the mics are not at the same spot as you were at the concert also.

   I've heard Anna Netrebko at the Met Opera, and when I put on her CD on my system, I know is her singing, I can hear the music, the hall and etc. But there's still something that's different about it.

   So, at home I'm hearing what the mic(s) heard at the concert hall. Still a well recorded one can still captors most of the fundamental sounds, and the emotional aspect of the performance enough to be reproduce at home. And with that I do enjoy Anna's voice on CD enough to reminded me of her singing live at the Lincoln Center but not 100% like being there though.

Buddy

Buddy, what you don't hear in the concert hall is stereo and imaging.  :o I'll take my Bryston rig over a live concert any day.  :D

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #25 on: 17 Jun 2019, 08:41 pm »
Buddy, what you don't hear in the concert hall is stereo and imaging.  :o I'll take my Bryston rig over a live concert any day.  :D

Amen to that. Don't understand why many consider live concerts the "gold standard" for audio gear performance. Lots of noise, grunge, germs, and steel (pun?) at live concerts. I prefer my cozy listening room any day, with noise-free recordings.

cheers, bud.

SET Man

Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #26 on: 17 Jun 2019, 10:59 pm »
Buddy, what you don't hear in the concert hall is stereo and imaging.  :o I'll take my Bryston rig over a live concert any day.  :D

Amen to that. Don't understand why many consider live concerts the "gold standard" for audio gear performance. Lots of noise, grunge, germs, and steel (pun?) at live concerts. I prefer my cozy listening room any day, with noise-free recordings.

cheers, bud.

Hey!

    I have two ears and they working fine. So, I do hear in stereo at  the concert hall. When I go to the Met Opera at the Lincoln Center, I usually sit up in the Balcony in the center, I like it up there because it actually sound better than down in the orchestra seat and of course it is cheaper up there too! And I can track where the direction of where each sound coming from.

  Anyway, I'm surprised to see that you two would rather stay home than go hear your favorite singer/artists perform live? Wow! You guys are truly an audiophile :bowdown: As much as I like and enjoy my system, I will never turn down a chance to see Anna or any of my favorite artists perform live... yes, with all the noise, grunge, germs and all!!!! OK, I'm going to leave this post now.

Buddy


   

NekoAudio

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Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #27 on: 18 Jun 2019, 12:57 am »
Photon64's answer is the closest to what my experience is with listeners in real life. Different people listen for different things, and end up weighting things differently for how much something sounds like an original. Even when performing controlled DBX tests with the identical setup and environment, people will weight how closely something sounds to the original differently, as well as incorrectly. (Including myself.) I would argue even highly trained professionals that perform critical technical listening every day will not always agree as to how to rate things relative to each other if there is more than one dimension of difference.

James Tanner

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Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #28 on: 18 Jun 2019, 12:50 pm »
Hi Folks,

An interesting observation I find when doing audio shows is that if you have a good sound most people agree on that fact.  I agree some preferences will occur between what each person considers as BEST at a show but generally the consensus is pretty consistent.

james

rollo

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Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #29 on: 18 Jun 2019, 02:38 pm »
Amen to that. Don't understand why many consider live concerts the "gold standard" for audio gear performance. Lots of noise, grunge, germs, and steel (pun?) at live concerts. I prefer my cozy listening room any day, with noise-free recordings.

cheers, bud.

   What is my true reference for tonality and harmonic structure is a live un - amplified Piano, Violin, Cello, Acoustic Guitar and drum kit. Since I have heard all numerous times my memory of "live" sound is embedded in my brain.
My goal is achieve the tonality, harmonics and Timbre of live. We get close but still no Cigar.
  If a system sounds colored to me meaning, bright, dull, non linear, detailed, thin, boomy etc then just not close to the real deal. Have someone play an Acoustic Guitar sitting between your speakers then play a Guitar recording. You will know exactly what I mean.


charles

Jozsef

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Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #30 on: 20 Jun 2019, 06:36 am »
We can go back many years to when a young Floyd Toole did some double blind testing at the NRC Dep't of Physics acoustics lab. Focusing on speakers since they were the weakest link in a typical system and very likely in the majority of exotic ones as well, he found that pretty much everyone, be they audiophiles, musicians, bus drivers, housewives or professors, always recognized and preferred the system with the flattest frequency response, lowest distortion and best dispersion. This was after spending some time listening to different types of music.

We hear everywhere we go with the same ears but an audiophile evaluating the realism of a system will be handicapped by knowing what it is and how good it is or isn't to the best of his knowledge, so that any conclusion drawn will be significantly affected. Sure, it's conceivable that there will be different priorities for different people but I think that generally there would be agreement in favour of the more accurate setup, a Bryston system vs most others, for example. (No, I don't work there but 40 years of great sound has given me a lot of faith in the company. A great deal of affection as well.) For me what seems to work is walking into a room to speak to someone while music is playing. If I'm distracted by what at certain moments sounds like the vocalist is really there, that's a very good sign. One day, I heard Tony Bennet in the room with me but couldn't find him anywhere. It was a Bryston system with the Mini As and I just couldn't go home without them. It was a similar experience with the T-Rex a few months ago, except for the last part. Still trying to work that out.

sfraser

Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #31 on: 20 Jun 2019, 06:26 pm »
Another issue is "audio memory" can be short or fleeting, and effected by other things such as general mood etc.

charmerci

Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #32 on: 21 Jun 2019, 10:28 pm »
Hi Folks,

An interesting observation I find when doing audio shows is that if you have a good sound most people agree on that fact.  I agree some preferences will occur between what each person considers as BEST at a show but generally the consensus is pretty consistent.

james
I came here to say that the few times I've been listening with fellow philes that we pretty much agree when some characteristic of a system is pointed out. But we each have our own preferences to what we will accept in sound or what part of a system irritates us about it.

charmerci

Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #33 on: 21 Jun 2019, 10:30 pm »
Another issue is "audio memory" can be short or fleeting, and effected by other things such as general mood etc.
I don't think trained ears do. I did the ITube2 tour in 2018 and just bought a used one. I listened to it and when I reread my review of the various sound options, my earlier review is more or less exactly how I hear it now.

Grit

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Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #34 on: 23 Jun 2019, 05:01 am »
It's hard to say. Music (for me) evokes an emotional response and that impacts my memory of the live concert. In turn, that could impact how everyone remembers/responds.

On top of that, there are people who like "bright" sound vs "neutral", etc. That could impact results... the person who favors more up-front treble might "feel" like the brighter system was more authentic, if they had a positive response to the live concert in the first place.

Lots of variables. I think you'd first need three like-minded audiophiles. In that case, then yes, I think the would all agree.

G E

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Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #35 on: 24 Jun 2019, 12:35 am »
I hear differently on different days. No doubt each of us has a unique perspective on our acoustic space.

some nights I hear master tape epiphanies from ancient analog groove technology.  I don’t know why everything aligns on certain nights to produce fabulous sonic sensation.... and other nights it’s just really good.

It’s a puzzler.

sfraser

Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #36 on: 24 Jun 2019, 03:29 pm »
My wife has an interesting set of ears. She has listened to Miles Davis "Aura " CD where all the track are named after colors. 1st time she heard the CD she started guessing  the color by track. she got  80% of them correct. I have several systems at home using decent speakers (PMC monitors and PSB status goldi) . The only system she ever comments on is the basement system using klipsch Lascalas. She says "wow" everytime she hears them.
« Last Edit: 24 Jun 2019, 11:34 pm by sfraser »

rollo

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Re: Everyone Hears Differently?
« Reply #37 on: 24 Jun 2019, 04:46 pm »
  I would say that we like different presentations than hearing differently.  Some rooms are cozy and warm others bright and cool. Acoustically damped or too reflective can affect my preference.
  Then there are live recording venues as well.
 

charles