7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????

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jaxwired

7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« on: 13 Jun 2019, 12:24 am »
 Given a choice between a 4b3 or a pair of 7bsst2 monos, what would you pick and why?  86db efficient speakers in a 14 x 20 room.   Replies much appreciated. 




Mag

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Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #1 on: 13 Jun 2019, 01:10 am »
Well, I have the 2's and I've heard the 3's at the dealer. IMO it depends on your room and speakers. The 3's have weightier bass and would be too much bottom end for my room with the Bryston Model T passives.

I am quite happy with the 2's. I have two 2's and I sent one in to get refurbished and when It came back it sounded significantly better than my older one, newer parts I guess.

The extra power of the 7's too, for me I wouldn't have to worry about clipping the amp with the higher than normal spl's I listen at. :smoke:

rollo

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Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #2 on: 13 Jun 2019, 03:41 pm »
  I would choose the mono blocks. Bigger stage, more open and of course more authority and weight. If you could have dedicated lines for each mono block and others for analog and digital you will crap yourself.  :lol:



charles

TJ-Sully

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Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #3 on: 17 Jun 2019, 02:48 am »
nice room you have there Jax.

I had a 4B3, and swapped it out for a 14BSST2.    It sounds good. But I miss the sound of the cube.   More full body.
I'd say get the 4B3, and save up for some 7B3's.

cheers!
TJ

Elizabeth

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Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #4 on: 17 Jun 2019, 02:24 pm »
I still use my Bryston 4B-SST² amp. I could see going for a cubed. Hard to say if the choice is (same cost) a new 4B3 or a used pair of 7B-SST².. ( I also would toss in the 14B-SST² as an option)
Part of it would depend on the OPs needs from the stereo. What does the OP must desire?
Slam, big bass sound? Low level detail and warmth?
So a lot depends on the person and the system they own already. So basically I am saying it depends on the person and their needs.
The comment from TJ-Sully might be important

CanadianMaestro

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Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #5 on: 17 Jun 2019, 04:30 pm »
Looking at your room photo, I would do the monos. Esp. for 86-dB spkrs.  My own spkrs are 90-dB, and going from a 4B2 to a 14B2 made a big improvement in driver control. No strain now.  :thumb:

And add some room treatment -- those brick/stone walls behind speakers can't be all that good for acoustics. Move the speakers out further away from back walls.
cheers

NekoAudio

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Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #6 on: 18 Jun 2019, 12:59 am »
I prefer the sound character and quality of the Cubed series over the SST2 series. But I've met people who prefer the SST2 instead.

skunark

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Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #7 on: 18 Jun 2019, 05:10 am »
Get the 7bsst2 and later, if interested ask if they still do the sst2 to sst3 upgrades..

Elizabeth

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Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #8 on: 18 Jun 2019, 12:35 pm »
Get the 7bsst2 and later, if interested ask if they still do the sst2 to sst3 upgrades..
Totally wrong info there. I can assure you and anyone.. Bryston NEVER offered or allowed any such 'upgrade'. IT was a clear message from James that NO SUCH UPGRADE would ever be made.
Where skunark thought he heard of it, wrong.

veloceleste

Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #9 on: 18 Jun 2019, 02:30 pm »
Totally wrong info there. I can assure you and anyone.. Bryston NEVER offered or allowed any such 'upgrade'. IT was a clear message from James that NO SUCH UPGRADE would ever be made.
Where skunark thought he heard of it, wrong.
Within the SST2 line there was an upgrade offered on the larger amplifiers involving changing out transformers and input and feedback capacitors to what I guess were early production units.
MEMO: TO All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Upgrades for Bryston SST² Amplifiers

February 2010

Hi All,

We have recently made some improvements to our SST² amplifiers and we will be offering an upgrade package to all our customers.

NEW POWER SUPPLY TRANSFORMER:
In conjunction with Torus Power, we have developed new transformers which are designed specifically to have very high energy storage. This is a considerably more expensive way to design a transformer, but it has clear advantages.
 
 A 'normal' linear amplifier power-supply is made up of a transformer, a bridge rectifier and a set of filter capacitors. The filter capacitors smooth the DC in the rectified waveform, and also store energy to supply large transient current demands from the speakers. The filter capacitors in turn are recharged by the transformer on each half-cycle. However, that recharging takes place on the very peaks of the 60Hz waveform, over only a few degrees of conduction. Thus, although the average current from the power cord is only a few Amperes, it is actually a series of very narrow, very high peaks of current, as much as 50 Amperes or more per half-cycle.
 
Those high, narrow peaks of current have a consequence. They equate to drops in Voltage from the power cord, from the wall socket, from the wiring in the house.  A transformer designed for energy storage solves those issues. It recharges the filter capacitors directly from its own energy storage capacity, and then takes up the energy from the wall socket over the entire 60Hz waveform. Gone are the narrow peaks of 50+Amp current, gone are the Voltage drops, gone is the negative consequence of restricted instantaneous power delivery.

So all new versions of the 14B SST², 7B SST² & 28B SST² incorporate these power supply changes. These transformer changes do not apply to the smaller versions of the amplifiers (2B 3B, 4B, 6B, 9B) because the advantages of this technology really only apply to very large power amplifiers with large power supplies.

2. INPUT CAPACITOR CHANGE and FEEDBACK CAPACITOR CHANGE:
We also implemented the use of some very specialized capacitors in a number of key areas in the circuitry.  There is a consistent improvement at high frequencies near and  above 20K, and up to over 60KHz. These specialized capacitors are installed at both the input stage and the feedback loop of the amplifier circuitry.  These capacitor changes affect all new SST² amplifiers.

The upgrade is only available for ‘SST²’ amplifiers ‘NOT SST’ or previous models.
                       

At Bryston we are continually trying to improve the performance of our products. Please be aware that these changes are 'evolutionary' not 'revolutionary' in nature. They will provide subtle to noticeable improvements depending on your specific system and setup.


Upgrade Prices:

7B SST² upgrade includes new transformers and capacitors:
$425.00 per unit plus shipping.
This only applies to 7B SST²’s below serial number 001826.

14B SST² upgrade includes new transformers and capacitors:
$850.00 per unit.  Plus shipping.
This only applies to 14B SST²’s below serial number 000677.

28B SST² upgrade includes new transformers and capacitors:
$950.00 per unit plus shipping.
This only applies to 28B SST²’s below serial number 000180

Please contact Bryston at jamestanner@bryston.com o

Elizabeth

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Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #10 on: 18 Jun 2019, 04:21 pm »
Within the SST2 line there was an upgrade offered on the larger amplifiers involving changing out transformers and input and feedback capacitors to what I guess were early production units.
MEMO: TO All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Upgrades for Bryston SST² Amplifiers

February 2010

Hi All,

We have recently made some improvements to our SST² amplifiers and we will be offering an upgrade package to all our customers.

NEW POWER SUPPLY TRANSFORMER:
In conjunction with Torus Power, we have developed new transformers which are designed specifically to have very high energy storage. This is a considerably more expensive way to design a transformer, but it has clear advantages.
 
 A 'normal' linear amplifier power-supply is made up of a transformer, a bridge rectifier and a set of filter capacitors. The filter capacitors smooth the DC in the rectified waveform, and also store energy to supply large transient current demands from the speakers. The filter capacitors in turn are recharged by the transformer on each half-cycle. However, that recharging takes place on the very peaks of the 60Hz waveform, over only a few degrees of conduction. Thus, although the average current from the power cord is only a few Amperes, it is actually a series of very narrow, very high peaks of current, as much as 50 Amperes or more per half-cycle.
 
Those high, narrow peaks of current have a consequence. They equate to drops in Voltage from the power cord, from the wall socket, from the wiring in the house.  A transformer designed for energy storage solves those issues. It recharges the filter capacitors directly from its own energy storage capacity, and then takes up the energy from the wall socket over the entire 60Hz waveform. Gone are the narrow peaks of 50+Amp current, gone are the Voltage drops, gone is the negative consequence of restricted instantaneous power delivery.

So all new versions of the 14B SST², 7B SST² & 28B SST² incorporate these power supply changes. These transformer changes do not apply to the smaller versions of the amplifiers (2B 3B, 4B, 6B, 9B) because the advantages of this technology really only apply to very large power amplifiers with large power supplies.

2. INPUT CAPACITOR CHANGE and FEEDBACK CAPACITOR CHANGE:
We also implemented the use of some very specialized capacitors in a number of key areas in the circuitry.  There is a consistent improvement at high frequencies near and  above 20K, and up to over 60KHz. These specialized capacitors are installed at both the input stage and the feedback loop of the amplifier circuitry.  These capacitor changes affect all new SST² amplifiers.

The upgrade is only available for ‘SST²’ amplifiers ‘NOT SST’ or previous models.
                       

At Bryston we are continually trying to improve the performance of our products. Please be aware that these changes are 'evolutionary' not 'revolutionary' in nature. They will provide subtle to noticeable improvements depending on your specific system and setup.


Upgrade Prices:

7B SST² upgrade includes new transformers and capacitors:
$425.00 per unit plus shipping.
This only applies to 7B SST²’s below serial number 001826.

14B SST² upgrade includes new transformers and capacitors:
$850.00 per unit.  Plus shipping.
This only applies to 14B SST²’s below serial number 000677.

28B SST² upgrade includes new transformers and capacitors:
$950.00 per unit plus shipping.
This only applies to 28B SST²’s below serial number 000180

Please contact Bryston at jamestanner@bryston.com o

To clarify, that 'upgrade was a change in the transformer to early version of the Bryston 4B-SST² which after the upgrade was STILL A Bryston 4B-SST² and well before Bryston offered the cubed model. Note the February 2010 date. The cubed were introduced SIX years later in 2016. and NO upgrade to the cubed, period. There is actually a post from James Tanner to that effect, . The actual start of the announcement for the 'new' cubed is HERE: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139680.0
THey are still talking about a future  squared upgrde to cubed on 23 Mar 2016 from date thread started 28 Dec 2015, Apr 11, 2016 still talking as if... still at 13 May 2016 as if... Except James mentions the 14B-SST² definitely cannot be upgraded... and..
Finally page 37 of the thread, Reply #735 on: 15 Jul 2016, Jame quietly states: ""No sorry - the certification and safety people will not let us make changes to existing products unless we re-certify which is not cost effective."" which is a basic NO UPGRADE. statement.
(I am hoping you can appreciate I waded through reading 37 pages to refute your claim. LOL)

veloceleste

Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #11 on: 18 Jun 2019, 06:56 pm »
I did not claim an upgrade to cubed. I said within the sst2 line an upgrade was offered to early production units.  I perhaps should have stated that that upgrade may have been a source of the confusion to the poster that asked about the squared to cubed upgrade. However,  James' notification (dated February 2010) is very clear. Please re-read.

Elizabeth

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Re: 7bsst2 or 4b3, preference????
« Reply #12 on: 18 Jun 2019, 07:29 pm »
OK my bad.  :thumb: