PMC/Bryston but what CD source?

declancd7q · « **on:** 1 Feb 2005, 08:03 am »

Separating personal sound preference, there's probably sufficient consensus that PMC speakers and Bryston amps are a great marriage.

Is there similar consensus about suitable CD source?

There's the love 'em or leave 'em Rega or Naim, the warm Arcam, or lean/detailed Cyrus, Densen, Creek, Roksan, NAD, Exposure etc...

Then there's C.E.C. TL51Z that I've been recommended, Meridian, OPUS 21, Pink Triangle, Micromega, Sugden, Unison etc etc...

Please understand this thread is not about who's CD player is superior...it boils down to personal taste & budget......WHAT I'M AFTER IS NATURAL SYNERGY that is similar to PMC/Bryston.

However pls don't include DACs or transports in this thread.....that's a whole new baby

Yogus · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Feb 2005, 09:35 am »

Hard to say, but you'd probably want something with the following attributes to suit the drier and leaner Bryston/PMC combination:
- Warm and full in the bass
- Perhaps smooth in the treble
- Fluid and natural mid-range

The problem is this is just my opinion.

Definitely nothing on the lean-side. That would rule out the RA Opus 21, Cyrus or Densen players.

Try the following stuff you can get in Oz.
- Ayre CX-7 - natural yet dynamic player that would suit the drier balance of the PMCs. Great player, had a chance to listen to one a few months back. Not sure where you can get one in Melbourne.
- Arcam FMJCD23 - warm, analogue-sounding with a creamy treble. I prefer it to the CD33 tbh. Maybe difficult to get a hold of.
- Exposure CD players - never heard of them being lean? Definitely another fluid performer. Audio Visual Lifestyle in Fitzroy, Melbourne have em.
- Meridian 507 - haven't heard the G series, but the 507 is different to previous 5 series players, being a bit pacier, but yet retaining that full-bodied organic bass.
- If you've got the $$$.. Audio Aero Capitole. One word.. *wow*. Again, AV Lifestyle, in Fitzroy Melbourne have em.
- Primare D30.2 - can't remember what they're like, but if their amps are anything to go by.
- Art Audionet V2 - dark, dynamic and natural sounding. Missed out on an ex-dem one once..

Or you could go for one of those Non-oversampling DACs that's flavour of the month at the moment. Their cheap price is probably worth a punt.

dan_lo · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Feb 2005, 08:34 pm »

Quote

...drier and leaner Bryston/PMC combination:
- Warm and full in the bass
- Perhaps smooth in the treble

The fb1 is indeed a bit lean and the treble a bit hard, but :
- The FB1+ has excellent, sweet treble ( not to mention the costlier speakers).
- From the OB1 up the midrange is not thin at all.

Not sure what you meant in "warm and full in the bass". Do you find the bass lacking in your FB1, considering it's price and size (or any other PMC speakers)?

Bryston amps have similar characters all across the range, but PMC speakers are not like that. There is a big difference in the character of the sound between the small ones, the FB1, the FB1+ and OB1, and the big boys.

Fife12 · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Feb 2005, 09:24 pm »

Seems most dealers that stock Bryston/PMC use Arcam.
The Arcams seems to provide that extra "ring" to the lean/drier Bryston/PMC combo.

Try looking for something with more body and warmth as Yogus says.

Yogus · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Feb 2005, 07:02 am »

I wonder what sources Bryston/PMC use to at shows or for their internal testing?

I've heard of a Teac Transport and Prism DAC being used once at the Bristol show last year.

James Tanner · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Feb 2005, 11:42 am »

Actually we use very inexpensive front ends at the shows and even in the Bryston demo room. The last few times we have used a $250 Sony DVD player. Use the digital out so it is really just a drive.
The reason I do this is that when people sit through the demo and are greatly impressed they have to give credit to the Bryston Amps and PMC speakers rather than some exotic front end.

james

jethro · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Feb 2005, 03:45 am »

Quote from: James Tanner

Actually we use very inexpensive front ends at the shows and even in the Bryston demo room. The last few times we have used a $250 Sony DVD player. Use the digital out so it is really just a drive.
The reason I do this is that when people sit through the demo and are greatly impressed they have to give credit to the Bryston Amps and PMC speakers rather than some exotic front end.

james

I also use a cheap Sony DVD player with my SP-1.7, Bryston amps, and PMC speakers - and I am impressed.

teaandcake · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 11:24 pm »

I own a Bryston BP25/4B SST with PMC OB1's. Over the last couple of years I have owned* or had long term demo's of the following CD players:

Meridian 507 & 588*
Mark Levinson 390s*
Arcam DV27a*
Resolution Audio Opus 21
Naim CDX2

Both of the Meridians had a warmth & musicality that offset the matter of fact presentation of the Bryston PMC combination, however the system always sounded dynamically constrained, the PMC's are little laid back and this accentuated that trait. The levinson is a very detailed and dynamic player in that analytical way that made my system sound really uninvolving. The Arcam sounds good for a DVD player, but the system always sounded a bit hard and flat as if the sound was trapped between two layers of glass. The Resolution Audio sounded very good, but I could not bring myself to stump up £3k due to the build quality. The Naim was very involving and dynamic for a short while after which it became fatiguing and irritaing.

The front end that I have found to have great synergy with the Bryston PMC kit is Chord's dac64, I know that you asked posters to recommend single box players only but I feel this combination is so good that it should be tried before just dismissing it. I myself was very wary of a seperate DAC, due the extra cabling and space required and the possibility of timing errors (jitter) that can arise when using a seperate DAC. However I borrowed one after reading a review in Hi Fi + while I still owned the £6500 Levinson, the dac64 turned out to be a real digital dynamo, easily outclassing the more expensive player. The sound is now so wide open and alive there is no way it can be described as uninvolving and sterile, I now find that I am listening to the music much more rather than analysing the system.

Remember the front end is very important 'crap in crap out' the best speakers in the world can only reproduce the information they are supplied!!

Yogus · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Feb 2005, 01:34 am »

I heard my FB1s with a Chord DAC64 with a Cyrus amp and thought the combo was quite good.

Certainly majored on musicality with excellent bass.

GordonJ · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Feb 2005, 02:37 pm »

Hi Declancd7q

I'm another DAC64 user... I think it blends very well with the Bryston sound, though I don't use PMC speakers. This seems like a popular recommendation so far in spite of your request not to suggest dac's. FWIW its not very dependant on the transport used, which simplifies things a bit. (I feed mine from a Pioneer DVD575.) If you really want a one-box solution, it might be worth having a listen to the Tube Technology Fusion CD64 if you can find one. I understand it shares some of the DAC64's approach but is a one-box player and has a tube output stage. Haven't heard it myself so can't comment on the sound. The other alternative would be to follow the Bryston lead, getting a dac-equipped BP25 or 26 and use a DVD player as transport.

Cheers

Gordon

KCLam · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Feb 2005, 03:45 pm »

I was using the Accuphase 80/81L DAC/Transport before upgrading to the Audiomeca Enkianthus DAC/Mephisto II. My amps are 3 X 14B ST, BP25 and the PMC MB2/XBD.

The Accuphase 80/81L was slightly bright and lean sounding, however this unit was released in the mid 80's and was a top of the line then. It is well built, having relocated 10 times in 10 years, it never failed to perform straight out of the box.

The Audiomeca DAC/Transport sounds neutral, natural and non digital. It made music, pure and simple.

Fife12 · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Feb 2005, 06:32 pm »

Nice stuff KCLam.

KCLam · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Feb 2005, 02:53 pm »

Hi Fife12,

Thank you. It's taken many years and some missteps to get to this, and I am very pleased with it.

Best regards.
KCLam

Yogus · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 05:55 am »

Quote from: teaandcake

I own a Bryston BP25/4B SST with PMC OB1's. Over the last couple of years I have owned* or had long term demo's of the following CD players:

Meridian 507 & 588*
Mark Levinson 390s*
Arcam DV27a*
Resolution Audio Opus 21
Naim CDX2

Both of the Meridians had a warmth & musicality that offset the matter of fact presentation of the Bryston PMC combination, however the system always sounded dynamically constrained, the PMC's are little laid back and this accentuated that trait.

teaandcake

Have you heard the Meridian G08 and compared them with the older 5 series? I listened to one into a BP26 and a pair of 7BSSTs into OB1s and thought they were anything but laid-back. They seriously killed my Arcam CDP.

I now wish I spent the extra $$$ on the OB1s rather than my FB1s... darnit.

declancd7q · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 08:56 am »

Chord DAC64 is very nice indeed but in Australia it's rather overpriced in my estimation. Since people brought up DACs, I'll break my own poster request and say I'm intrigued by the Benchmark DAC1 - I'm yet to read a bad review and it has balanced XLR, variable gain etc...

But as a single box CD players, G08 was magic. The Musical Fidelity X-Ray for $2K AUS was fine...a touch ho-hum (grey) and lacking any real verve...but it wasn't bad.

The attraction of the DAC64 or DAC1 has been stated before - largely independant of transport...just a decent one is required.

Anybody tried a Sony or equiv SACD/CD hybrid drive...since James Tanner suggested a moderate source is used in demo.....would be nice if there was a great sounding SACD/CD player.

GordonJ · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 09:26 am »

Well the Pioneer DVD player I'm using as a transport also plays SACD's but I'm ashamed to say I haven't yet bought any to try out this aspect. Maybe its time...

Cheers

gordon

nicolasb · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 09:43 am »

What, no votes for the Linn CD12?

Yogus · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Mar 2005, 10:53 am »

Quote from: declancd7q

Chord DAC64 is very nice indeed but in Australia it's rather overpriced in my estimation.

It will cost about $1.8KUSD plus shipping 2nd-hand and there's two on Audiogon right now, so a lot cheaper than the $6.5KAUD retail in Oz.

I think the SMPS power supplies are universal, so there's no worries about 110 vs 240v.

declancd7q · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Aug 2005, 09:22 am »

I agree the Brystons amp benefit with a source that has some sympathetic warmth and nothing that would emphasize the slightly laidback OB1 presentation.

Meridian G08 remains top of the list presently....but oh so painful (yet nice....a somewhat troubling combination).

I've also heard a vaccuum-state http://www.vacuumstate.com/ modified Sony XB940QS sounds wonderfully fluid, grain-free and still vibrant.

So what am I waiting for....well something to knock the socks off my feet....still looking so let me know

declancd7q · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Aug 2005, 09:24 am »

I agree the Brystons amp benefit with a source that has some sympathetic warmth and nothing that would emphasize the slightly laidback OB1 presentation.

Meridian G08 remains top of the list presently....but oh so painful (yet nice....a somewhat troubling combination).

I've also heard a vaccuum-state http://www.vacuumstate.com/ modified Sony XB940QS sounds wonderfully fluid, grain-free and still vibrant.

So what am I waiting for....well something to knock the socks off my feet....still looking so let me know