[flavo]

I'm pretty lost!   I'm looking to upgrade my DAC but I have no idea what I should be looking for. I'm not even sure what my source files are called. Flac for the most part I think? I also stream pandora.
All of my files are digital. In general I'm listening off of my PC to J River to Emotiva DC-1 through a 20' toslink cable.
Maybe I should just be using a different source for my digital files all together?
I will be getting a stand alone Pre and separate DAC, but have no idea where to start with the DAC.
My budget is sub $1K  and would hope to spend less if possible. Hopefully something used and better quality? 
I'm trying to connect with some local to buy an MHTD off of him if that might be a good choice for me?  http://www.mhdtlab.com/Istanbul.htm

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

[ted_b]

My $.02:
* try to find a DAC that accepts both PCM and DSD, so as to broaden the source files you can listen to, all the while not having to convert one format to the other (if you don't want)
* a bonus is finding one that has an option of doing NOS (non over sampling) so you can, optionally, feed the dac a sample rate it excels at (possibly by upsampling in your computer) and know that the dac is not upsampling it internally (dac upsampling chips are usually an oversight and a $5 component...I say usually).

[audioengr]

First, you need to establish a budget.  Are you willing to spend $1K, $3K, $5K or 10K on a DAC?

Then, you need to deal with the 20 foot USB run.  One way to do this is split it in two and put a regenerator in the middle.  Then get a really good USB cable from generator to DAC, like Wireworld Platinum.

The regenerator I would recommend is the SOtM tx-USBUltra, about $1300

There are other regenerators that are cheaper, but may not be as good.  This will improve USB sound quality a lot.

Steve N.

[ted_b]

First, you need to establish a budget.  Are you willing to spend $1K, $3K, $5K or 10K on a DAC?

Then, you need to deal with the 20 foot USB run.  One way to do this is split it in two and put a regenerator in the middle.  Then get a really good USB cable from generator to DAC, like Wireworld Platinum.

The regenerator I would recommend is the SOtM tx-USBUltra, about $1300

There are other regenerators that are cheaper, but may not be as good.  This will improve USB sound quality a lot.

Steve N.

?  He clearly states his sub $1k budget.  Regenerators, etc are out of his budget Steve!

[jMelvin]

@flavo .. because you are posting in this circle I'll assume you're interested in listening to high-res files. You should be aware the Istanbul is a 16-bit DAC. Like other MHDT DAC's it will accept a signal up to and including 24/192 but will output at 16-bits. Not that it won't sound good, quite the contrary I'm sure, but it is not a high-res DAC. It is an old-school R-2R multibit DAC. This type of DAC is quite popular these days (the MHDT Lab Orchid is getting some online chatter as of late). I love my Pagoda which is MHDT's only DAC that accepts and outputs 24/192. If you are interested in hearing high-res at its native rate perhaps you should be looking at a different DAC. If you're ok with 16-bit and you can get the Istanbul for a good price, you may be pleasantly surprised to hear how good 16/44.1 can sound.

[audioengr]

In this price-range, I would seriously consider a Sonos Connect and a Synchro-Mesh reclocker to an inexpensive DAC, like a used Metrum or a Chinese DAC on ebay. This way you can do the long run with Ethernet or use WIFI to the Connect. This will give you much better sound quality than any cheap USB DAC driven from your computer.  This will deliver really low jitter to a DAC that sounds great with low-jitter coax input.  You can stream any service you want using the Sonos (Tidal/Qobuz) and play all of the local tracks on your PC. This will give you galvanic isolation between the computer and the DAC, the Sonos and the DAC, so no ground-loops to make noise.  You can control the Sonos from your phone or iPad etc.. The Sonos will not stream or play anything above 44.1 however.  The SM upsamples to 24/96.

Sonos Connect - $399
Synchro-Mesh - $699
Markertek Broadcast quality coax - $20
DAC - Metrum Flint - $459.99

https://www.ebay.com/itm/METRUM-Acoustics-Flint-reknown-non-oversampling-DAC-100-240v-AUTHORIZED-DEALER/123246886052?hash=item1cb2163ca4:g:KL0AAOSwLYRbR483

Total = $1577.99

You can probably get this closer to $1K if you buy some of these used on ebay or Audiogon. You could replace the Synchro-Mesh with a lower performing iFi SPDIF iPurifier for $149.

Steve N.

[flavo]

Fantastic information from you folks.
Audioengr: I can work with that $1500 budget to change the chain.
Are you just a fan of the Metrum or is there a reason why you recommended that dac? Just because of the 24/192 and NOS?

Would moving my PC closer to the amps and just using a long hdmi for my monitor on the desk be a better idea?

Thank you folks so much.

[flavo]

My $.02:
* try to find a DAC that accepts both PCM and DSD, so as to broaden the source files you can listen to, all the while not having to convert one format to the other (if you don't want)
* a bonus is finding one that has an option of doing NOS (non over sampling) so you can, optionally, feed the dac a sample rate it excels at (possibly by upsampling in your computer) and know that the dac is not upsampling it internally (dac upsampling chips are usually an oversight and a $5 component...I say usually).

If I were to keep this dac route and not go Sonos:
I can tell you I don't want to be fiddling with it to change sample rates all the time.
So I would be looking for something that accepts PCM and DSD
and one that does non over sampling
What sample rate would I be looking for? 24/192?

[flavo]

@flavo .. because you are posting in this circle I'll assume you're interested in listening to high-res files. You should be aware the Istanbul is a 16-bit DAC. Like other MHDT DAC's it will accept a signal up to and including 24/192 but will output at 16-bits. Not that it won't sound good, quite the contrary I'm sure, but it is not a high-res DAC. It is an old-school R-2R multibit DAC. This type of DAC is quite popular these days (the MHDT Lab Orchid is getting some online chatter as of late). I love my Pagoda which is MHDT's only DAC that accepts and outputs 24/192. If you are interested in hearing high-res at its native rate perhaps you should be looking at a different DAC. If you're ok with 16-bit and you can get the Istanbul for a good price, you may be pleasantly surprised to hear how good 16/44.1 can sound.

I don't really know enough to know what I want. Haha. Why would I want to hear hi res in it's native state? Is it better that way?

[DZetye]

I'm using a Bluesound Node 2i streamer to the Synchro-Mesh to a Denafrips Ares D/A ($800) and it sounds wonderful.  I like it as well as my Aurender player into my Auralic Vega D/A ($3500).  In fact , I find myself using the Bluesound setup more frequently.  I don't see how it could get much better than this.

[flavo]

I'm using a Bluesound Node 2i streamer to the Synchro-Mesh to a Denafrips Ares D/A ($800) and it sounds wonderful.  I like it as well as my Aurender player into my Auralic Vega D/A ($3500).  In fact , I find myself using the Bluesound setup more frequently.  I don't see how it could get much better than this.

The node2i and sonos connect perform the same function? I'd just be bypassing the dac in the node or the sonos, assuming the sonos had a dac as well?

[DZetye]

Yes, although the Node 2i is a newer platform and has a pretty darn good DAC you could use internally until you could upgrade.  Does MQA decoding for high rez on Tidal too.  I personally love the Tunein player on Bluesound and the way that it displays song and artist information.  My Aurender streamer doesn't do that on internet radio.  Don't know about the Sonos.  I couldn't live without the Bluesound.

[audioengr]

Fantastic information from you folks.
Audioengr: I can work with that $1500 budget to change the chain.
Are you just a fan of the Metrum or is there a reason why you recommended that dac? Just because of the 24/192 and NOS?

Two reasons:
1) NOS
2) no reclocker on the S/PDIF input

Would moving my PC closer to the amps and just using a long hdmi for my monitor on the desk be a better idea?

That would help, but the USB still needs a LOT of help, like the regenerator you cannot afford and the Wireworld USB cable you cannot afford.  For less than the cost of the Regenerator for USB, you can get stellar sound quality with S/PDIF.

Steve N.

[audioengr]

If I were to keep this dac route and not go Sonos:
I can tell you I don't want to be fiddling with it to change sample rates all the time.
So I would be looking for something that accepts PCM and DSD
and one that does non over sampling
What sample rate would I be looking for? 24/192?

You don't need to fiddle with sample-rates if you use a Bluesound instead of the Sonos.

[flavo]

Two reasons:
1) NOS
2) no reclocker on the S/PDIF input

Steve N.

Thank you Steve. I haven't seen it written anywhere that the S/PDIF input doesn't have a reclocker on it.  Did you see that in the literature somewhere?
I only ask, so that if I'm looking at other DACs I might be able to look for that info as well.

[A_shah]

Yes, although the Node 2i is a newer platform and has a pretty darn good DAC you could use internally until you could upgrade.  Does MQA decoding for high rez on Tidal too.  I personally love the Tunein player on Bluesound and the way that it displays song and artist information.  My Aurender streamer doesn't do that on internet radio.  Don't know about the Sonos.  I couldn't live without the Bluesound.

@steve & DZeteye
Kindly educate me ? i am a bit confused Do I need a relocker ??  or Synchro-Mesh or a I/SpDIF and Why ?? a , Ok I have a couple of DAC's my main system has a PS Directstream DAC,(I own a OPPO 205 ,Don Sachs DS-2 . )I recently acquired for a 30 day trial period a BlueSound Node 2i  for streaming ( previously using a Nvidia Shield )  What  a surprise  ! the Node2i has an excellent DAC ! as far as I can tell I do have Hi speed Internet and prefer wireless ,
My 2nd system for Desk top  DAC is a Schiit Gungnir (delta Sigma ) , a Audeze Deckard, & a Chord Mojo , a newly acquired QuickSilver Tube Headphone amp. and yes I am a long time subscriber of Tidal and Quboz  and listen to You tube video's ( he he he )I am too lazy for vinyl (time consuming)
So Do I need the I/Spidf Converter ? or a Synhro-mesh ?  I do find my Gungnir to be a bit noisy . 
thanks

Asghar