[James Romeyn]

Camera is an old but (apparently) perfect condition, almost no use Canon EOS 10D, with standard OEM flash only: https://www.canon.co.uk/support/consumer_products/products/cameras/digital_slr/eos_10d.html?type=manuals&language=

Lens is the low cost "kit" that came with my earlier Rebel 300D, 18-55mm zoom, f/3.5-5.6.  I modified its EF-S mount to fit the 10D's EF mount: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF-S_18–55mm_lens#18–55mm_f/3.5–5.6_II

The 10D's image resolution, only 6.3mp, is more than adequate for my application with adequate lighting.  I use auto-focus only to date.

What's the first upgrade to improve resolution in indoor, marginal light conditions?  Color and density are infinitely better without the flash, but of course resolution suffers "yugely." 

My first choice is to buy and install an optional flash, and if not that, consider a lens upgrade (18-55mm seems adequate).  If manual focus options would solve my problem, it looks difficult to master for a camera-know-nothing like myself. 

I realize this 10D and lens' resale value is about $100 or less.  If someone wants to recommend upgrading the whole kit, please suggest used options.  I do not need nor want to pay for more features for features sake; my only goal is as stated above.  I have absolutely nothing against higher resolution, but again, 6.3mp seems OK as long as the light sensitivity problem is fixed.       

[thunderbrick]

The 18-55 kit lens is OK at best.  I think a better lens, maybe a 16-35 2.8 will give you better sharpness and color fidelity, better edges to your subjects.

I know when I went to a 17-35 2.8 Nikon glass the images had far more impact and seemed more "real."  Every one of my friends who borrowed it went out and bough one for themselves.

And the 2.8 aperture will be a huge help with low-light situations.

[James Romeyn]

Thank you, Thunderbrick.

My used camera store, the one that sold me the 10D, has and suggested a used 17-55mm f/2.8, for $549 (brand unknown).  When we talked yesterday that was the only lens he had for my application.  Comments esp. price welcome. 

I guess I'll take a peek at eBay.     

[Early B.]

Your lens is fine for your needs. Upgrading your lens won't solve your problem.

You were correct in identifying the need for a speedlight or other form of external lighting. Better lighting will significantly improve image quality, especially in low light settings. Speedlights are inexpensive nowadays. You can pick up a good one brand new for $50 - $75, and they're just as good as the Canon branded ones.

I used to be heavily involved in photography and used external lighting 100% of the time, even in full sunlight. Often, I used a kit lens to create stunning images.

[stlrman]

I would look at the Nikon D3300 for sale here . Its a way better camera body and a fast lens comes with it. $225

[James Romeyn]

Howdy, and thanks for your reply.  I can't find the link in your post.  Nikon lenses have a great reputation.  What do you prefer about the Nikon body?

[stlrman]

being sold by Chip.
24.2 MP CMOS DX-format sensor
5 frames per second continuous shooting
11 AF points with 3D tracking
ISO 100-12800 (expandable to 25600)
1080 (60, 50, 30, 25, 24 fps) HD video (MPEG-4/H.264/MOV).The D3300's 11-point Autofocus System locks onto your subjects as soon as they enter the frame and stays with them until you catch the shot you want.
3 inch LCD with 921,000 dots; Lens Compatibility at a Glance***AF-S Lens Required for Autofocus ; Optical Zoom 3x

[jmc207]

James, I believe this is the link for the Nikon D3300.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161412.0

[Photon46]

For more specific help, tell us what type of low light photography you are interested in. Immobile or animated subject matter? The solutions for quality low light portrait, landscape, and product photography vary. You've got multiple parameters to work with in photography; shutter speed, ISO speed rating, supplemental lighting, F/stop of the lens, and rigidity of camera support.

[James Romeyn]

For more specific help, tell us what type of low light photography you are interested in. Immobile or animated subject matter? The solutions for quality low light portrait, landscape, and product photography vary. You've got multiple parameters to work with in photography; shutter speed, ISO speed rating, supplemental lighting, F/stop of the lens, and rigidity of camera support.

Speakers in a sound room, sage colored walls, some front wall acoustic treatments w/off-white linen cloth covering.  Speaker veneers: "chocolate" walnut (AKA dark alder, Van Dyke alder), maple, cherry, etc. 

Where was a light fixture that likely would have supplied enough light is now a retractable perforated screen.  Remaining lights comprise only 6 evenly spaced cans with LEDs, 100W equivalent.  Unfortunately, speakers are IFO the screen frame (hangs about 4" below the ceiling), which frame is IFO the front most can lights, causing the frame to partially "shade" the front most can lights, minimizing speaker illumination. 

Room dimensions LWH 25.5 x 15.5 x 7.6 feet, speakers on short wall 6+ feet from the front wall.  This particular speaker set is 6 pieces (8 including 2 sub amps); main speaker lower half (LWH) 15 x 12 x 24, upper half 12 x 18 x 23, outboard subs 12 x 12 x 28.  Wanting to shoot the pair together, spaced about 9 feet, plus each speaker separately.

If such fixture exists, I wonder if a good solution is to replace the bulbs in the two middle cans, with a spot light having a normal lamp thread, a long enough neck to be useful, and a swivel LED on the end.  Each lamp would point at its nearest speaker.   

I have a tripod that has seen little use. 

[Photon46]

Speakers in a sound room, sage colored walls, some front wall acoustic treatments w/off-white linen cloth covering.  Speaker veneers: "chocolate" walnut (AKA dark alder, Van Dyke alder), maple, cherry, etc. 

Where was a light fixture that likely would have supplied enough light is now a retractable perforated screen.  Remaining lights comprise only 6 evenly spaced cans with LEDs, 100W equivalent.  Unfortunately, speakers are IFO the screen frame (hangs about 4" below the ceiling), which frame is IFO the front most can lights, causing the frame to partially "shade" the front most can lights, minimizing speaker illumination. 

Room dimensions LWH 25.5 x 15.5 x 7.6 feet, speakers on short wall 6+ feet from the front wall.  This particular speaker set is 6 pieces (8 including 2 sub amps); main speaker lower half (LWH) 15 x 12 x 24, upper half 12 x 18 x 23, outboard subs 12 x 12 x 28.  Wanting to shoot the pair together, spaced about 9 feet, plus each speaker separately.

If such fixture exists, I wonder if a good solution is to replace the bulbs in the two middle cans, with a spot light having a normal lamp thread, a long enough neck to be useful, and a swivel LED on the end.  Each lamp would point at its nearest speaker.   

I have a tripod that has seen little use.

That definitely helps in understanding your issues. A "faster" lens probably isn't much help in this situation because you want sufficient depth of field. Get out your tripod and lock that camera down. It's better to shoot on manual control instead of automatic programming for this kind of work. Use a slow shutter speed and an ISO speed as low as you can for best color fidelity and noise performance. Your Canon 10d will capture RAW files, are you able to process and edit Raw files? If so, editing in RAW will allow you to lots of control to open up those shadows values that are obscured. You can also open up the shadow values by using supplemental lighting. You can aim portable work lights or spot lights at  pieces of white foam core or poster board and bounce the softer light at dark areas that need" fill" light. Use a broad a beam spread bulb as you can find in the cans.

Shooting several exposures and combing them into an HDR image is also an option if you have the editing software for post processing (your camera doesn't have native HDR processing ability.) Your camera came with a "Canon Solutions Disc" and other software that probably will let you edit in RAW at a basic level. I started using Canon cameras after the intro of the 10d, so I'm not sure what you got for software with your purchase.

[Stu Pitt]

That definitely helps in understanding your issues. A "faster" lens probably isn't much help in this situation because you want sufficient depth of field. Get out your tripod and lock that camera down. It's better to shoot on manual control instead of automatic programming for this kind of work. Use a slow shutter speed and an ISO speed as low as you can for best color fidelity and noise performance. Your Canon 10d will capture RAW files, are you able to process and edit Raw files? If so, editing in RAW will allow you to lots of control to open up those shadows values that are obscured. You can also open up the shadow values by using supplemental lighting. You can aim portable work lights or spot lights at  pieces of white foam core or poster board and bounce the softer light at dark areas that need" fill" light. Use a broad a beam spread bulb as you can find in the cans.

Shooting several exposures and combing them into an HDR image is also an option if you have the editing software for post processing (your camera doesn't have native HDR processing ability.) Your camera came with a "Canon Solutions Disc" and other software that probably will let you edit in RAW at a basic level. I started using Canon cameras after the intro of the 10d, so I'm not sure what you got for software with your purchase.

Last I knew, Canon DPP (their editing software) can be downloaded directly from their website. I bought a 40D secondhand without a disc, went to Canon’s website a few years later, and downloaded the software directly. I just had to enter the camera’s serial number. I’ve done it a few times since too with the same serial number; last time was about 2 years ago when I got a new laptop.

[Stu Pitt]

This is all going to assume you know very little about photography. Sorry if I’m overly simplistic. I’m no expert; I’ve read a bunch of books and am a trial and error taught guy. Take it all as you will...

I’ve never used a 10D. I have a 40D, and my cousin has a 30D, so I’m assuming performance is going to be along those lines. My 40D’s biggest weakness is low light, the 30D is incrementally worse, so it’s fair to assume the 10D is worse than that.

A big part of many megapixels you need is going to be determined by how big your pics are going to be. Something people may not consider is how much you’re going to crop the images. The more cropping, the more megapixels come into play. With minimal cropping and displaying normal sized pics on the web, your 10D shouldn’t have any issues.

I wouldn’t spend any money on stuff if all you’re using it for is stuff like what you said above. Maybe a flash, but I’ll get into that.

Here’s what I’d do:

Download Canon’s DPP software from their website. It’s versatile, what you’ll need it for isn’t too complicated, and it’s free. This is where you’ll adjust your white balance, exposure, angle, etc.

Use your tripod. You’re going to do a longer exposure than handheld will allow.

Set file size/quality to RAW. Much easier to edit and the highest resolution possible. Why record in mp3 when you can record hi-res? Same thing sorta.

Use manual mode, should be M on your dial instead of P, Av, Tv, etc.

Use auto white balance. This can be easily changed in the DPP software along with “picture style” winch as standard, portrait, landscape, etc.

Set ISO to 100. Higher ISO will give you more grain or “noise.”

Set aperture to 5.6 or 8. Start at one and work your way to the other. Most lenses are sharpest somewhere in here, and the depth of field should work for what I think you want.

Because nothing’s moving, including the camera, you’ve got a practically unlimited range of shutter speed. The longer the speed, the more light that gets in. Since I have no idea how bright or dark the room is, I have no idea where to tell you to start. Try 1/20 sec because, well, why not? Play around with it until your exposure looks good. There should be a histogram you can select during playback. Try that. It should be a bell-shaped curve.

Instead of pressing the shutter button, use the timer. This way the camera doesn’t shake, taking away some sharpness.


As far as flash, get one that goes on the hot shoe. This can be used to fill in shadows or overpower the existing light. Don’t point it at your subject; point it straight up, angled up, sideways, etc. Straight on will give you an uneven lighting with bright spots.

If you plan on using the camera as a main camera for normal stuff, definitely goer a flash before other lenses. Wide aperture lenses are great, but a flash is far better in low light for that camera. Been there, done that with my 40D. A 2.8 lens for the stereo pic isn’t going to get you anything the tripod and longer exposure won’t get you. It could very well be a better lens and a definite upgrade, but for the situation you described it’s not what I think you’re looking for.

As long as you’re not looking to print large pics and aren’t expecting National Geographic cover quality pics, the 10D should be great everyday camera IMO.